What is EBR's biggest reason for not gaining traction in US market?

I didn't see anyone hating on EB. If anything, this thread has many posts where people are praising him and showing respect for him.

Yes, his bikes are "good". But there are tons of bikes on the market that are just as good if not better, and cost less.

There are lots of bikes that are lighter, more powerful, more competitive, easier to find parts for, have better dealer support, and are more reliable, that cost less.

 

i would venture to say that Brian Crighton's motorbike creations are more impressive than Buell's, by a bunch... and he's still alive. but hey... a bit subjective i guess. oh yea, some heavy hitters in here...

the Norton Rotary achieved significant racing success with riders Steve Spray, Trevor Nation, Robert Dunlop and Ron Haslam, followed by a win at the 1992 Senior TT race by Steve Hislop,[2] and Ian Simpson winning the 1994 British Superbike Championship.

1987 Season Results
Darley Moor - M. Heath 3rd

1988 Season Results
14th August Carnaby - A. McGladdery 1st
29th August Cadwell Park - T. Nation 1st
Donington British TT Formula 1 - T. Nation 4th
Mallory Park British TT Formula 1 - T. Nation 7th
Thruxton British TT Formula 1 - T. Nation 4th
Mallory Park British TT Formula 1 - T. Nation 1st
Cadwell Park British TT Formula 1 - T. Nation 1st
3rd September Mallory Park - T. Nation 1st
4th September Mallory Park - T. Nation 1st
1st October Cadwell Park - T. Nation 1st
2nd October Cadwell Park - T. Nation 1st
9th October Darley Moor - T. Nation 1st
23rd October Brands Hatch TT F1 British Championship - S. Spray 1st
"Powerbike International" - S. Spray 1st

1989 Season Results
24th March Brands Hatch Eurolantic Race 1 - T. Nation 2nd S. Spray 5th
13th May North West 200 "North West 200" - S. Spray 3rd
14th May Donington Park 750cc Supercup - S. Spray 3rd
21st May Mallory Park F1 British Championship - S. Spray 1st
9th June Isle of Man TT Senior TT - S. Cull 23rd
18th June Donington Park F1 British Championship - S. Spray 1st T. Nation 4th
25th June Cadwell Park 750cc Supercup - S. Spray 3rd
9th July Knockhill F1 British Championship - S. Spray 3rd
16th July Snetterton F1 British Championship - S. Spray 1st R. Stringer 2nd
30th July Cadwell Park F1 British Championship - S. Spray 1st T. Nation 4th
12th August Ulster Grand Prix World F1 Championship - S. Cull 3rd
20th August Thruxton 750cc Supercup - S. Spray 1st T. Nation 6th
3rd September Mallory Park 750cc Supercup - T. Nation 2nd S. Spray 3rd
17th September Brands Hatch 750cc Supercup - T. Nation 2nd S. Spray 4th
24th September Cadwell Park F1 British Championship - S. Spray 2nd
1st October Donington Park F1 British Championship - S. Spray 3rd
8th October Darley Moor "Solo Stars" - Race 1 S. Spray 2nd
"Solo Stars" Race 2 - S. Spray 2nd
15th October Brands Hatch F1 British Championship - S. Spray 2nd T. Nation 5th
"Powerbike International" - S. Spray 1st T. Nation 3rd

1990 Season Results
11th March Cadwell Park F1 Race 1 - S. Spray 1st T. Nation 2nd
F1 Race 2 - S. Spray 1st T. Nation 2nd
13th April Brands Hatch TT F1 - T. Nation 1st S. Spray 5th
16th April Donington Park Superbikes Race 1 - S. Spray 2nd T. Nation 3rd
Superbikes Race 2 - T. Nation 1st S. Spray 2nd
28th April Castle Combe F1 - S. Spray 1st T. Nation 2nd
29th April Thruxton F1 - T. Nation 1st
22nd May North West 200 Superbike - R. Dunlop 1st
"North West 200" - R. Dunlop 1st
23rd May Snetterton 750cc Supercup - S. Spray 1st
2nd June Isle of Man TT Formula 1 - R. Dunlop 3rd T. Nation 6th
3rd June Isle of Man TT Senior TT - T. Nation 2nd
17th June Donington Park MCN TT Superbikes Race 1 - S. Spray 4th T. Nation 5th
Race 2 - S. Spray 3rd T. Nation 4th
Snetterton MCN TT Superbikes Race 1 - T.Nation 1st
Race 2 T.Nation 1st - S. Spray 2nd
24th June Cadwell Park 750cc Supercup - T. Nation 2nd S. Spray 5th
1st July Pembrey 750cc Supercup - S. Spray 3rd T. Nation 5th
1st July Vila Real, Portugal World F1 Championship - R. Dunlop 2nd
8th July Knockhill 750cc Supercup - S. Spray 8th T. Nation 10th
5th August Donington Park MCN TT Superbikes Race 1 - S. Spray 4th
MCN TT Superbikes Race 2 - S. Spray 3rd T. Nation 5th
11th August Ulster Grand Prix F1 Coupe - R. Dunlop 2nd
"King of the Roads" - R. Dunlop 2nd
22nd August Thruxton 750cc Supercup - T. Nation 2nd
2nd September Mallory Park 750cc Supercup - S. Spray 8th
22nd September Oulton Park MCN TT Superbikes Race 1 - T. Nation 2nd S. Spray 5th
MCN TT Superbikes Race 2 - S. Spray 15th
23rd September Cadwell Park MCN TT Superbikes Race 1 - T. Nation 1st S. Spray 5th
MCN TT Superbikes Race 2 - T. Nation 2nd S. Spray 11th
"King of Cadwell" - T. Nation 2nd
30th September Donington Park 750cc Supercup - T. Nation 4th
13th October Kirkistown Kaliber 750 Race 1 - T. Nation 5th R. Dunlop 6th
Kaliber 750 Race 2 - T. Nation 5th R. Dunlop 6th
Sunflower 750 - T. Nation 5th R. Dunlop 7th
21st October Brands Hatch MCN TT Superbikes Race 1 - T. Nation 7th R. Haslam 9th
MCN TT Superbikes Race 2 - T. Nation 4th R. Haslam 5th
"TT International F1" - R. Haslam 3rd T. Nation 5th
28th October Donington Park F1 - T. Nation 2nd S. Spray 5th
24th November Macau Macau Grand Prix Race 1 - R. Dunlop 4th
24th November Macau Macau Grand Prix Race 2 - R. Dunlop 6th

1991 Season Results
Australian 500cc Grand Prix - S. Spray 15th
New South Wales Formula One - G. Hodson 1st
North West 200 Superbike - R. Dunlop 1st T. Nation 2nd
"North West 200" - T. Nation 1st
14th July Snetterton MCN TT Superbikes
Race 2 - R. Haslam 3rd –
"Race of Aces" - R. Haslam 2nd –
3rd August Donington Park MCN TT Superbikes Race 1 - R. Haslam 4th T. Nation 6th
4th August Donington Park 500cc British Grand Prix - R. Haslam 12th
MCN TT Superbikes Race 1 - R. Haslam 4th T. Nation 6th
MCN TT Superbikes Race 1 - R. Haslam 1st –
10th August Ulster Grand Prix 750cc category Race 1 - R. Dunlop 3rd
750cc category - Race 2 R. Dunlop 3rd
18th August Oulton Park 750cc Supercup Race 1 - R. Haslam 2nd
19th August Thruxton F1 - T. Nation 2nd
8th September Mallory Park 750cc Supercup Race 1 - R. Haslam 3rd T. Nation 13th
750cc Supercup Race 2 - R. Haslam 4th T. Nation 9th
22nd September Oulton Park MCN TT Superbikes Race 1 - R. Haslam 2nd T. Nation 6th
MCN TT Superbikes Race 2 - R. Haslam 1st T. Nation 6th
29th September Donington Park MCN TT Superbikes Race 1 - R. Haslam 3rd T. Nation 11th
MCN TT Superbikes Race 2 - R. Haslam 3rd
13th October Knockhill MCN TT Superbikes Race 1 - R. Haslam 6th T. Nation 9th
MCN TT Superbikes Race 2 - R. Haslam 6th
20th October Brands Hatch MCN TT Superbikes Race 1 - R. Haslam 4th T. Nation 14th
MCN TT Superbikes Race 2 - R. Haslam 3rd T. Nation 11th
"Powerbike" - R. Haslam 3rd

1992 Season Results

April Pembrey - R. Haslam 4th
North West 200 Superbike - R. Dunlop 2nd
24th May Donington Park MCN Supercup Race 1 - T. Rymer 1st R. Dunlop 3rd
MCN Supercup Race 2 - T. Rymer 1st
Isle of Man TT Formula 1 - S. Hislop 2nd
Isle of Man TT Senior TT - S. Hislop 1st R. Dunlop 3rd
16th August Cadwell Park MCN Supercup Race 1 - R. Dunlop 1st
20th September Brands Hatch MCN Supercup Race 1 - M. Farmer 2nd R. Dunlop 4th

1994 Season Results

Oulton Park H.E.A.T. Supercup Race 1 - P. Borley 1st I. Simpson 3rd
Race 2 - P. Borley 1st I. Simpson 2nd
25th September Brands Hatch H.E.A.T. Supercup Race 1 - I. Simpson 1st P. Borley 2nd
Race 2 - I. Simpson 3rd
16th October Brands Hatch Powerbike International Race 1 - I. Simpson 2nd


Plus the new one was still running at the Isle of Man until Norton decided to switch up to a V4. and Crighton is still developing his own bike to go to market soon as a boutique bike.

 

The new Norton is horrible and will again be slow as molasses at the Isle this year. Brookes is throwing away any chance of a podium. Must be a nice check though!

 

I don't like nortons. And crighton didn't design it. He's been gone from them. I like peripheral port rotaries, and he designed THAT. and spondon did his chassis. Norton put their stickers on a gas tank.

 

I mean back then, there was serious factory support, as opposed to 2009. Remember, we're talking engineering here, not riders.

 

why do u think he dreamed up all those ideas? do u think they were original? i think none of the major features on his bike were novel ideas. oil/gas in frame has been around for a long time. direct mount shock is old tech. i swear ive seen very old pictures of perimeter brakes. what else is there?

it was a novel idea to put that all together in one bike, but we've already discussed how some of those ideas werent a good choice. good engineers know when to K.I.S.S., let alone great ones. in my eyes, he loses points for the inherent handicaps w/ the moto because he made poor choices. he doesnt gain points because he was still able to qualify w/ those self-inflicted handicaps.

 

You wanna talk revolutionary, look at what Rob Tuluie did.

 

I rode a stock 1 a couple of seconds off race pace during their track day demo promotion. I actually liked it, but for the money was underpowered and had little track cred.

Put a reliable, 165rwhp V4 in it and that story might have changed.

 

Because they insisted on utilizing a suspension/braking design that was not better than conventional tech, but was also worse. And ugly. Hell even the motors were ugly and outdated for the longest. They had improved, but still that front end.

 

Take a cross sample of the same bikes from the same years EBR made bikes. Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda, BMW, Suzuki, Ducati. Put an EBR in the lineup and
please TRY to say, "I've GOT to have the Buell!"

Same as the VR1000, it's performance was 20 years behind it's competition, and it looked like it was 20 years behind it's competition. Harley hired LOTs of talent
trying to get that bike to compete...it just wasn't possible.

Racers aren't going to buy it because it's a turd on the track, and non-racers aren't going to buy it because it looks like turd sitting beside the curb. Even the Biker Boyz don't want to
be ridiculed by their peeps for having the slowest bike in the gang.

 

Thank you. I wasn't feeling googly. It also reminded I need to check up up on Fiona and Shaun.

FWIW, Shaun did *not* like racing the Britten on the TT course.

-jim

 

Why? It's a motorcycle.

-jim

 

I have already said they were poor choices, at least 2 different times now. As has several others.

 

I keep forgetting history doesn't exist beyond dipped oreos.



-jim

 

I just made your planet tilt on axis, didn't I.

-jim

 

I didn't say "Harley has never made a sportbike".

Ducati has also made a "cruiser" (for all intents and purposes). But that isn't what they are known for and isn't their target demographic, nor what makes their "brand".

 

ya, that wasnt the point of my post, just a reiteration to support my points.

u didnt explain further so i gotta ask. why do u think those poor choices involving some non-original ideas make him a great engineer? is it because the bike was flawed by design and still qualified for WSBK?

 

FWIW, that's an idealized image. In practice the HD two-smokes (powered by Aermacchi in the AMF days) were more purposeful and rough. Here's one of their 350's ...



-jim

 

That's a nice bowling ball.

 

I didn't explain further because I am in no mood to fucking argue. I was going to just let it go, but you keep on.

How many other bikes are like the EBR's? How many other bikes are racing competitively with his brake/suspension/fueling setup?

He did very well considering his limitations and business issues along the way. I have said multiple fucking times that I don't agree with his choices and they ultimately did him in, but you still can't take away from his relative accomplishments.

While I don't agree with his ideas, he is someone who has shown huge passion and support for our sport.

You took issue with the "great engineering mind" comment and have done nothing but look for ways to bash the guy and discredit his work. So let's see the bike you designed and built. Since he has such an average or mediocre engineering mind, let's see your work. How many bikes have you designed and built from scratch that lined up in WSBK?