Why even bother with college these days?

Function in a reasonably adult manner in performing academic tasks without the need for remedial classes. Of course the demographics of college bound students have changed drastically in the intervening years. A lot of students that would never have been college bound in the 50s are admitted now.

 

Why not? I have no particular preference…Michigan State, Univ. of South Carolina, MIT, Williams College, Middlebury…etc…etc…are we comparing institutions or the students (post #97)?

 

Ah, well... high school students not going to college in the 1950's had more to do with money than it did with capability…was less expected back then, and if so, how do we know? and today, for certain there are students in college and universities who should not be there, they are simply not going to make it through to graduation.

 

IMHO, 60 years ago there were far fewer slots available in far fewer institutions of higher learning. IMHO, the selection criteria was more stringent and I think those that went were expected to succeed, not because college is simply what you do after HS. You went to college to pursue a career, not a degree.

 

In the 50s business was booming for a lot of industry/jobs that are now outsourced or eliminated through efficiency.

 

Completely false (MAYBE the English part). I surpassed both my parents in math by the 10th grade. They both have Masters Degrees from U of Michigan, mom was Phi Beta Kappa. At the time I inquired, they both just plainly said that it was not necessary or required for their studies, in high school or college. I stopped being able to ask for help checking homework.

Economics as a science and philosophy has come a long way since the 1950's in both the amount and types of data, but also the overall depth and amounts of the theories, models, and discussions.

 

Do you think it safe to say that perhaps you and your parents are not representative of a huge demographic sampling?

 

Not the study of philosophy, like Socrates philosophy. The philosophy of certain schools of thought on Economics.

*shrug*... I only meant that as if to say. They were smart, in the 50's, and knew a bunch less math than I had to just to meet pre-requisites. that's all.

 

There are always exceptions...you have to have the top and the bottom to get the average

 

So your yardstick for measurement is bu the time you were in 10th grade your parents forgot so much of their highschool and college education that they couldnt help you with your homework? REALLY?!

im saying, sit down a high school graduate now and a high school graduate from 1950s/60s and the old school would outperform todays kids in most of the covered subjects.

Math hasnt changed that much since the 60s thats for sure.

Or you seriosly believe the "no child left behind" is doing a better job at preparing the kids for whatever happens after high school?

 

Okay, you've changed it a bit with this statement, and as you put it here, I agree only if you accept the fact that 'math' (as you put it) has changed in the way it is being taught today.

Regarding the NCLB Act, it is now finally past history, and hopefully gone with it, the Arnie Duncan-Bill Gates 'data-driven accountability' era of education insanity will come to a slow and hopefully painful death.

 

And wasn't it I that informed that you that there is no such thing as an average from a sample of 1? (You know, degrees of freedom and all.)

I kindof was forced to go to college (both my parents earned graduate degrees, and both my brothers flunked out) and I was sent to a highfalutin prep school under scholarship so there were expectations and such. After graduation I was offered a job as a head brewer in a small micro -- one of the pioneering brewpubs in the country. Went to graduate school instead, and have had a good 30 year professional career. I consider this one of my better decisions. YMMV.

 

I think this is 100% wrong. The amount of knowledge, scientific progress, methods of doing math (advanced calculators, learning different ways to solve the problems) have all contributed to us gaining more knowledge at an earlier point in our lives than those of 50 or 60 years ago. If you went back in time to the 50s or 60s you would likely be hard pressed to find people with knowledge that could match your own. I bet it would be very entertaining to sit in a NYC bar back then and just listen to the everyday conversation.

That does not mean that there weren't people smart enough to learn back then, just that they did not have the resources available that we do today. Hell, My 7 year old nephew is already near my level with computers and electronics by 15 he'll know more than I ever want to.

 

You might have been a memory refresher, but your were at least 50 years too late to have have been the original. Then again that's par for the course.

 

Knowledge does not necessarily equate to understanding any more than information equals facts.

 

So you knew about numbers allowed to vary in a calculation at ten y.o., but forgot at 60? Talk about par...
(That should tee up something witty.)

 

You forgot to figure in my handicap.

 

Correctomundo.

 

My dad would have graduated right close to 1950. He did go on to graduate college with degrees in computer science, mathematics and then an MBA with accounting as well as start programming computers back in the punch card days, but the math he could do with paper, pencil and slide rule would make a lot of today's college graduates' heads spin. Remember these are the guys, that graduated about that time frame, that put man on the moon doing math long hand and some serious scientific process (and guessing/hoping). Today's reliance on calculators and to an even deeper extent word processing with spell check and grammar would put me more into agreement with stating many of that generation having a bit higher intellect at high school graduation than many of today's college graduates.
Of course there are outliers, but overall they did have to noodle stuff out a bit more than we do these days with our fancy technology (that they invented). At least when it comes to mathematics.