The chassis is not like the r6.. you can compare the swingarm and see that. It's the same chassis as the xsr900 or whatever that retro bike is
I think the R7 launch put a negative damper on future middleweight launches for Yamaha. Public perception from what I can tell is a meh excitement level and that it won't be 'faster' than the R6 quoting MT09 engine and performance specs. I'm sure there are some in this forum that know the real specs but I would assume that the R9 should be better as it's essentially the inverse of the R1/MT10, right? The MT10 uses a detuned R1 CP4 engine and the R1 is loads better. Why couldn't the opposite be true for their 900s where Yamaha use the MT09 CP3 but beefed up for the R9? The R9 was created for the next-gen rule specs because the R6 hasn't been performing as well, so why wouldn't the R9 be better than the R6?
Pretty simple, no one will buy it. It was my understanding it came down to an R6 style framed R9 for 16k, or a MT style R9 for 11k. (guessing on pricing) Marketing is making the decisions now, not the race departments. I think the motor will be good. I know it's been tested in competition and I can tell you that it is near as fast as a MA spec 750 in a different chassis.... Ken
That’s not really accurate Since 2017, the R6 won world supersport every year save for 2024. Yamaha wanted to stay in the middleweight field but had to do so and meet euro emissions, which they could with the CP3 engines. They weren’t going to manufacture and sell 2 middleweight-market bikes. And the R6 sales numbers here in the US were falling so it got the axe in favor of a new bike.
How can a better frame possibly add that much to the cost? Not doubting Ken for a moment, just curious from a development and manufacturing perspective how that is possible.
From a manufacturing standpoint it’s extensive. Engineering, testing, tooling, and finding suppliers and establishing a completely separate line all on top of servicing an exceptionally small percentage of your market that is already saturated. The market doesn’t want nor is it buying sportbikes to the scale it once was. It’s the same model Suzuki used for the GSXR line (and still does today). They changed forks and swingarm between 600/750/1000. And did it previously in the early 90’s with the 600/750 and 1100 models.
Well back when we raced RS125’s, Ben Solis, Daytona Anderson, Lex Hartyl and who knows who else, ran a swing arm that was $9,000!!! I paid 2.5k for Tyler’s first entire RS125 and later upgraded to one from Gerloff for $5 or $5.5k. The Moriwaki was $7.5k. So, I can see a chassis being $5-6k if a single swingarm was that much
After reading this again I wanted to clarify. I paid those numbers above for our complete race bikes back in 2009-2011, yet as cheap as those bikes were. some racer dads were spending 9k on a swingarm only. BUT BOY DID WE HAVE FUN. I really think racing lead to all his success. He became an investment banker. Unfortunately that requires 80-100+ hour work weeks, especially when in the middle of deals, which seems to be almost every week. Anyway, I’m really proud of him, last week he moved into a 2 bedroom apartment that he bought in Manhattan on the upper east side. IMO that came from racing, because we used to talk about business and how we bought ours etc, it made him decide to pursue finance. Initially he was going to be an engineer. Well when he got good enough and we moved to 600’s we started getting some financial help, thank god. Those people were generally business owners, or finance guys, or real estate. I told him I was done chasing nationals after he got hurt. We could club race, do local nationals, etc or he could quit racing and I would pay to send him to a real college. He said I want to keep racing but i understand. Then he decided there weren’t any engineers coming to offer help so he better figure out how to get a job to pay for racing, which pushed him to finance. Don’t know if he will ever race again, but racing pushed him to figure out how he could make enough to pay for it himself.
There were statements made early on that there would be an SP version. I think that came from Ten Kate, but can't remember. Following the MT09 SP, that would be the KYB forks and ohlins rear.
Two considerations: 1) volume 2) that is the difference in price at MSRP. 1) As an example, let's say the R6-like chassis was developed for the R9. How many units of that model, and by definition that chassis, will be sold each year and can it be used in other models? These will be the key manufacturing considerations since they drive tooling amortization and profit for a company like Yamaha. 2)While the manufacturing cost of the swingarm may be a $500 - $1000 more (I'm guessing) at the manufacturing level, that component has an internal price within a company. When a product goes through product planning, each group that contributes to the development is treated like a separate business unit that needs to generate profit; e.g., the chassis group need to make money, the engine group needs to make money, the electronics group needs to make money. So, all of these individual groups add a bit of cream to their costs for the components they provide to make up the whole. Then the sales group adds all this up, does a market study, and finalizes the product's price point. And then you need to add on distributor margin, dealer margin, etc. This is how prices balloon. I don't know if a swingarm itself could move the MSRP from $11K to $16. However, it is possible that to justify the tooling, the company would decide that $16K is the price they have to sell the product at to justify the component development, tooling cost, and profit margin for all parties involved.
I've tracked an MT09 and the motor which is great on the street falls totally flat after about 110mph. If unmodified from that bike, the R9 will be lightyears behind the R6.
The more expensive the bike, the less they sell. That goes with just about anything. I don't think that three cylinder motor, was originally developed to be a supersport motor. Supersport motors are in a pretty high state of tune. I rode one when it first came out, not impressed. One why to tell how much power a engine puts out, look at the radiator, the bigger the radiator, the bigger the power.
