What killed the 450 super single bikes

Paging Hate McDead . . . . .

Cheers,

Dave

 

I should have never read this thread......

I'll never race because of some health issues but after I finish my current little build I now wanna try and build one of these for the street if it's possible to get it legal in NC ....

 

Shouldn't be too difficult if you start with a streetable version of an MX bike.

 

what Geoff was saying is EXACTLY why i even started to do this. being a younger dude... only my first R6 even had carbs, and i never really messed with them. i never had dirtbikes as a kid cause i was a city dude. never had a car with carbs. i know general wrenching from race cars pretty damn well, and i know suspension geometry theory and setup fairly well from serious mtbs and race cars... but carbs and 2T rebuilds/maintenance... in the dark.

i LOVE 2 strokes, so the idea was to dip my feet in the pool with a single piston 2T motor, where that it was easy to work on and understand. only 1 carb so it doesnt have to sync with other shit and different pipe lengths and different exhaust gas temps and blah blah... and only 1 piston to learn porting and maintenance and piston wear reading signs, etc...

i'd love to do a super duper custom built RZ motor to either a 500cc or 3-piston 750cc, or a RG or RZ V4 500cc motor and throw it in something real cool chassis wise, but i figure... learn it on this one first, so i don't do something dumb and tank a $10k motor that's rare and hard to replace. the idea of a light bike is also super appealling to me. i love how R6s feel compared to mid-2000's liter bikes. i can only imagine dropping another 140lbs off the bike. i started this build with Shennandoah Circuit at Summit Point in mind as the first place i wanted to actually ride it. if i can get 85whp out of this thing and actually keep the front wheel on the ground, i think it'll be amazing to ride. we'll see i guess.

and as if everyone didn't already know, one more for Geoff is the raddest. i picked the Yam chassis specifically so i could get the GP Tech conversion stuffs. super helpful dude and awesome to just shoot the shit with, i wish i had more dudes like that local to me.

 

Yeah but what options are there other than the DRZ if I want a newer modern 400cc + engine? I mean the KLR and I guess the big xr600 but I'm under the impression that neither of those have the power of a CRF or yamaha 450 engine.

I'm not up on dirt bikes but I thought all yamaha had was the 250 that was street legal.

 

Geoff,

I have a very nice PDF file of your 450 build that I assume you put together. However, I can't find the link to it on your website (I assume I got it off your site)...

 

There are no 450 enduros? What about that Honda? 450X?

 

A quick google check and it seems to be street legal in nc.

 

Yep, mine is 241 wet with about half a tank of gas.

 

Ktm and husky both have enduro and supermoto bikes that are great bikes. Also north carolina is a BITCH to title a bike that comes with off road only on the title.. but there is a way though titling the bike through north Dakota.. i could get you that info if you wanted it. that would open you up to all MX bikes..

 

I need this. Any more on the specs? I'm finishing two large projects now (basement/workshop and new wakeboard boat) but one of these will be my fall/winter project. I'd like to learn more about the choice of frames/swingarm if you care to share.

 

its an 08' yz450f frame, swingarm, and subframe. bracing gussetts added to the subframe. bracing and plating added to the stock swingarm then smoothed out. i chose the yz frame so i could get the steering stem, shock, farings, and rearsets from Geoff that he already made instead of doing all the fab work myself (ie. having to describe it to my machinist buddy and then paying to have him do it). saved a few steps of trouble that way. plus he already has suspension geometry input and testing done.

the engine in that pic is a KX500 2-stroke. the swingarm mount on the cases was machined to fit inside the yz swingarm and the hole was enlarged for the wider diameter yz swingarm bolt. craddle mounts were redone. a sweet braced cylinder mount was made to bolt up to the frame.

i'm switching the engine to a LT500R quadzilla 2-stroke motor because it has a factory counter-balancer, so hopefully way less vibey, and so i'll probably have to redo those cases too and the craddle mounts again i assume. probably have to modify the crazy some again too.

the front end is R1 LE Ohlins with Attack triples which i'll probably get revalved for sure, and the front wheel and rotors are from one of the Graves Yamaha R7/1 FX bikes. Kenny at MRP made me captive wheel spacers to fit the endurance bearings that came in that wheel since they're a different size than normal R1 wheel/bearings so it would match up to the forks well still. welded a mounting tab to the headtube to use a ZX10R Ohlins steering damper that fits on the front in between the triple clamps.

Marchesini supermoto rim out back, hopefully run 120/160 slicks on it, or atleast something cool. Ohlins TTX from Geoff. Mishimoto radiators. RCS19 master. Domino throttle. CRG supersport clutch lever. Graves chain blocks out back with a ERV3 chain and Renthal sprockets. prolly run either a 42mm or 44mm Mikuni on it with a custom pipe... was thinking about either a regular underbody or trying to do an underseat on a servo that retracts with revs to maximize pipe length before the expansion chamber... if the cylinder can be flipped which i dont think it can, but maybe it can. we'll see. AIM dash. PVL ignition. everything else is run of the mill i guess? meaning nothing is? haha i dunno its a mish-mash of ideas. that's about all there is too the whole thing.

 

I'd like to cram that KX500 motor in my KX250 ice bike. Message me a price on it if you're interested. At the very least if you could tell me what the overall length, width and height of the motor is that would be cool.

 

Thank you. The gears are turning. Also looked at the F450 stuff and will likely go that route with a frame. Looking forward to a fun summer on the new boat, but can't wait until fall to really dive into this project!

 

2 things...

1) the cases are now probably wrong for that since the YZ swingarm has a larger diameter bolt, and the width of the cases for the YZ is narrower to fit in the swingarm... BUT, you can buy fresh ones on ebay for like $180

2) the engine is completely apart and in baggies in a box, since it had to be taken apart to split them and machine them at the machine shop. it ran when i bought it though supposedly.

if you want this box o' KX parts... you can have it for almost absolutely nothing at all haha $200? its all there if you feel like throwing it back together... plus whatever little misc bullshit i have for it. i also have a new Vforce3 reed, a new Keihin 39mm PWK carb, carb spacer, a PVL ignition, an FMF chamber... that i should prolly also sell off i guess. i'm almost positive i've seen dudes throw those in a KX250 before. you prolly just have to chop up the craddle a little. if its like the older tube frame KX, i dunno if you have to do anything to it. i'll try and snap you some measurements this weekend, its sitting over at my momma's house since she has space and i currently do not.

 

I love super singles and will build one at some point just for the experience as much as anything. I love building bikes. One other thing I see having raced them before is this: a supermoto bike isn't much slower if any than a supersingle on non-road America type race tracks. Supermotos are much cheaper to build since the only thing you're buying extra is the same set of wheels a super single needs and a revalve/respring. Bike is done and ready to roll with two modifications. You start diving into a super single and realize the time it'll take, a motard starts looking pretty attractive. I'd still build one anyway and source the parts from Geoff but just giving some more thoughts on the subject.

 

I'd much rather go the super moto route except for one problem......judging from what I've read on the bbs I could likely be DaveK's relative or something. We both seem to be inseam challenged .

 

The WR450 can be made street legal in many states.
Most of the KTM enduro line, usually EXC model, are street legal.
Many Husky's, TE model and the like, have been street legal over the past few years.
These are the ones I can remember.

 

I've got an old 2003 CRF450R that I've made street legal in MI. It currently sits in SuperMoto trim, meaning 17" spoked wheels, big brakes, and a front fork that is about 1.5" shorter than stock. Set up like this the bike really needs more trail, it likes to try and tuck the front everywhere.

It've also ridden it with 19" wheels (dirt track setup) on the SM suspension at Gingerman, and the thing absolutely rails (thanks to the increased trail). Doesn't stop as well, though.



It's been sitting in my garage for the past 3 years waiting for a rebuild. More than once I've looked over at it and wondered how little work it would take to throw an R6 front end on it and just go run it as a naked bike. Hmmmm...

-T

 

Somebody gave me a set of r6 forks WAY back..thanks Scotty VanHawk! I will pay it forward and give u the set, if u promise to TRY hard to get the conversion done (someday).