My current truck is getting pretty worn out, thinking about replacing it with a late 90's-early 2000s diesel. Most likely a 7.3 Ford, maybe a bulletproofed 6.0. Also somewhat considering the same MY Dodge, but the transmission and rust issues have me a little gun shy there. I'm new to diesels, but from what I understand the 7.3 is pretty much trouble free. I'm looking to stay under 20k, I dont drive a lot and don't need something super new and nice. I don't really 'need' a diesel, but I have had a use for one in the past, and I'm looking to get a 'do-it-all' truck that I can hang on to for 5-10 years.
My 2000 7.3 was good, but drive a GM with the duramax and allison. I think you need to go to the model year of 2004.5 to get the better LLY engine. I sold my 7.3 and bought a 02 GM with the LB7. My GM had more torque and will tow a toy hauler much better, vs. the 7.3. The way the transmission works in tow mode is far superior to what Ford had in 00. The problem with the first gen LB7 engine like I have is injectors go bad and it takes a lot of labor hours to replace them. I think the dealer wants 4k for the job. The LLY is the better engine. http://www.dieselarmy.com/features/history/family-lineage-the-evolution-of-gm-diesel-truck-engines/
Take a look at the internal components of the Powerstroke, the Duramax and the Cummins. If it's late 90s or early 2000s, I don't think there is even a discussion. The Cummins is duty rated for more than twice the longevity than the other two. The most reliable will be a Cummins with a manual transmission. You can fix rust - or have it fixed - cheaper than you can rebuild an engine and tranny. I have an '04 Dodge Cummins 6spd. It's getting some rust in the normal dodge places. Rear wheel wells/quarter panels. I'm going to have to fix them. The interior is a POS comparatively. But it is a rock solid motor. The piston rods on a Cummins CR in that year range is more than twice as beefy as either a Ford or a Chevy. The crank is as well. The straight 6 isn't a hot rod, but it's just about bulletproof. The manual - particularly the 6spd - has a reputation for pilot bearings scoring the front end of the input shaft, requiring the shaft to be replaced but that's about it. If I were buying a new truck, I would probably lean toward the GM Dmax. Times have changed. But since I primarily only use the truck for towing the race trailer and other than that just every once in a while, I plan on keeping it practically forever. Watch Fleabay and Autotrader close. If you find one priced well, jump on it no matter where it is. I bought mine in FL and flew down to get it 9 years ago. It 's got going on 270k on it and is an awesome work vehicle.
I had a 1997 Crewcab Dually F350 with the 7.3. Loved that thing, it was a rare bird being a Centurion conversion that had a 5 speed and 4wd. That said, it was pretty much a tractor with a truck body on it. The next generation of diesels starting around 2000 and up were a lot more refined, and got even more so every few years after that. I personally would seek out a Cummins or 7.3 still though if you just want something that will run and do what a diesel truck is used for. If it's a 7.3, I would go later than 2000. Better trany, split shot injectors etc. As Rob mentioned above, the early Duramax motors had injector issues and they are spendy. The Cummins 5.9 and cockroaches are the only thing that will be around after a nuclear disaster, so they are always good. I really like the fact that you actually have some space to work on them under the hood.
I'd get a 6.0 over the 7.3. I have a 6.0 and put a about $5K in to the engine bay, although some of that was R&R some older parts while I had the mech in there. Once you get past the horror stories of the 6.0 they are fine and pretty reliable, the 7.3 and 6.0 are the same HUEI engine architecture the big difference is the EPA crap that got put on the 6.0 (EGR) If you don't live in an emissions state for diesel then rip it out and stud the engine. I ran 40K miles last year on mine about 20K was towing things from boats to 14,000lb RVs from Savannah, GA to LA and Washington plus everywhere in between. Some of the advantages of the 6.0 over the 7.3 or even the dodge is the transmission which is a 5 speed(6 technically but only uses 5) Vs the other two who have 4spd. Also the 6.0 has a VGT, which if you don't know is a variable vane turbo which changes sizes as the vanes open and close. This help it better off the line and allows it to spool up a little faster. The turbo and transmission also work together great and I don't have to use the brakes going down hills as the turbo can close the vanes to create enough back pressure to slow you down. I lost the trailer brakes on a 10,000lb boat coming down the pass out of Portland, OR in the rain, 6% grade and the trans/turbo in 3rd gear kept me below the speed limit. There is a huge aftermarket for these trucks now and you can really take your pick, a simple tune on the 6.0 really lights it up and I'll never drive another truck with out a tune. The 7.3 is really just getting old and people may claim the trucks are bullet proof but the newest one you'll find is 02 or early 03 build so you're hitting on 15 years now. The 6.0 and 5.9 dodge were made through 07 so you'll get a chance at 10 years old. If you do look at the 6.0 I'd say 05+ because some of the quirky issues were addressed and that was the update year where they went from things like leaf spring fronts to coilover springs, etc. Between the Ford and Dodge the you'll get 4 full doors if you go the crew cab route instead of the dodges mini doors. If going for a short bed the dodge is only 6'4 which means you can't load a bike in the back without it being cockeyed. The Ford comes with a 6'9 bed and can hold any sport bike I've loaded so far. Of course if you go for the long bed they will both be 8' and doesn't matter. I do know the dodge 5.9 has issues with injectors 4 good friends have all had to replace them with regularity, one being stranded on the road. They all range from grandma drivers to floor it at every stoplight so it leads me to think it is the trucks and not the drivers The dodge does have a straight 6 vs the ford V8 so there is more room to work with two less cylinders, injectors and glow plugs. Although working on mine hasn't been what I wold call super hard. The 5.9 is known for better fuel economy than the Ford so you just have to decide if the better drive-ability of the ford is worth the fuel trade off. I average 13mpg city and 15-16highway at 75+ and 10-11mpg towing. If i slow down to 60-65 on the highway those numbers will go up to around 17+ empty and 12ish towing. As far as the 7.3 VS 6.0 I wouldn't buy a 7.3; the age and knowing what I know now about the 6.0 it's not near the horror story people make it out to be. The 6.0 vs 5.9 is a different story and completely up to you. I think dodge made their final upgrades in 05 as well so if you're getting a 05+ 5.9 or 6.0 you can't go wrong. The 5.9 has a reputation as does the 6.0, on either end of the spectrum though, so the price will reflect. The comparable trim level dodges and fords had as much as a $10K difference. I couldn't justify that which is another reason I ended up with the Ford so just keep it in mind when you go searching. For the Ford, ford trucks (FTE) is a good site to look at and they have a dedicated 6.0 forum, Again knowing what I know now I wouldn't consider the 7.3 an option compared to the 6.0. Here's some good starting points for getting a used 6.0 I don't know of any for the 5.9 but someone should be able to chime in. I also think becuase of the crappy rep the 6.0 gathered there is a huge following of people that have found solutions and willing to share info. Buyers guide http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/969253-buying-a-used-6-0l.html Tech Folder: http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/303583-6-0l-diesel-tech-folder.html 6.0 Forum: http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum107/
Are you even considering a GM? if so look at the 04-06 LLY engine code or the 06-07 LBZ engine. all the GM/Duramax from 2001-current are 6.6L so they are broken down by their engine code. There wasn't much wrong with the 04+ but people will talk crap about the independent front suspension (IFS) they have and tell you it's the most horrible thing ever. Again, it's all up to you. If you want to throw GM in the mix your choices just got harder and I'll tell you the best you can narrow it down to is 05+ Ford/Dodge and 04+(LLY) GM. Stay away from the LMM 2007.5 GM as that is they year they introduced DPF and all that. you could always delete it but the price is starts going up on these newer models. For what they are they will all perform the job. What are you planning on using it for, just a tow rig on the weekends or an everyday thing?
whats your price point? A tradesman equipped (4dr) Dodge Cummins can be bought new for ~$45ish OTD. I haven't heard of any full sized Chevys selling for that. Ironically the mid sized diesel colorado is expensive as hell too! I do like how the LBZ and Allison work.
For the record, as far as Injectors - again - have just about 270k on an '04 Cummins 5.9. Injectors have been replaced once. No fuel pumps, etc. Just the injectors. Most of my friends have Dmaxes and a few have PStrokes. They've replaced injectors at a more frequent basis. None of them have even close to the miles on their trucks as do I. There is no injector issue on the Cummins 5.9 Common Rail Engine - Period. The GMs have routinely replaced lift pumps/fuel pumps. Again - I'm not sure it's even a debate. If you're talking about nothing newer than let's say 2005, then there is no discussion. The Cummins 12v or 5.9 Common Rail will outlast the other two by hundreds of thousands of miles. If you're looking at newer trucks, then the situation changes. The old Ford IH diesels sound like a can of rocks, don't have the power, but last forever. The Cummins of those year ranges will be the most economical in terms of fuel mileage - without a single, solitary shadow of a doubt. Look at the rods, just look at them.... https://www.turbodieselregister.com/user_gallery/sizeimage.php?&photoid=5594&width=0 The cummins is a "medium duty" rated engine. The PStroke and Dmax are "light duty" rated engines. Like I said, if I were going to spend the cash on a pretty new truck, I'd very likely go with a Duramax/Allison. But I'm not going to spend that money. For longevity, the best bang for the buck in the Cummins concerning reliability is the 2004 - NOT even the 2004.5.
Hmm. Lots of good info. In my state diesels 06 and newer are required to have emissions tests, unless I get creative with what county it's registered in, but I'd like to avoid all that.
Really? What state? I'm curious. No emissions in PA for diesels regardless of even if they're brand new.
I know the old engines have a loyal following, but I'm not certain it's as deserved as people think it is. Those engines were so detuned that they didn't have much stress. The newer motors are probably just as robust, but they're jammed up with emissions garbage and run a bunch more boost to make the good HP and Torque numbers everyone wants to brag about. Buy a newer truck, dump the emissions garbage, put a safe tune on it, and enjoy. It would sure beat riding around in some 20yr old junker with a wobbly steering wheel, crank windows, and a rusted body.
Most of ^that Except, 05-07 Dodges still had the 5.9 available. '05-07 is my favorite because of the massive G56 manual trans.
IMHO the NV5600 (which is what I have) is perfectly awesome. The shift pattern "feels" a little weird. But it's massive. I was going to change my own clutch last year. Then I realized the trans weighs 360lbs by itself. It's actually well over 100lbs heavier than the G56. Also, while I can't really speak with any authority about it, some folks I trust believe the '04 5.9 is a little better in terms of durability than the '04.5+. However, I really can't say for sure that I agree.
Again, look at the pics of the rods. In terms of long term over the road durability, nobody can say for sure but I can't honestly say I'd agree that the newer motors are as durable. And the older ones weren't "detuned" so much as they were built for purpose. The OP is also talking about price. By the time you "buy a newer truck, dump the emissions and put a safe tune on it" you've got WAY more money in it. You're also making some pretty drastic other comments. There is nothing about wobbly steering wheels, crank windows, etc. Yes, there is some rust, but it's all about budget. I don't have heated leather seats or a sunroof. Everything else is power. And I probably have less in the truck than many current people just have in aftermarket components in some of the new trucks! I run a Smarty Jr, and regularly pull 10k pounds, getting 15mpg, with the cruise set to 70-75mph - in 6th gear. On a trip from here in Pgh to Jennings Fl, other than slowing down to stop, etc, I probably downshifted to 5th 2 times. Not everybody has the disposable cash to spend $35-40K on a tow vehicle that they don't use all that often. I think the OP is looking for something reasonable for limited use.
I'm seeing quite a few 'bulletproofed' 6 liter fords. I'm kinda liking that option. Buuuut... how does one make sure that the thing really does have ARP studs?
I agree on some points, but a lot of times people talk of the old 7.3's and 5.9's like they're perfect, indestructible beasts, and they just aren't. These are usually working trucks, so with age comes a decent amount of abuse. There's more to the truck than the engine. The engine may have been ticking for 400k, but you've been through three front ends (and all the tires eaten up because of those front end issues), a couple of transmissions, five window motors, the whole truck rattles, the paint is faded, the seat is broken down, etc, etc, etc. You've got to factor in all of those things in the cost/benefit calculation, not just the selling price.
Gotcha. I'm a little confused on the Dodge - 04 is the best year, but 04-06 are all okay? I'm pretty sure I'm gonna stick to 06 and older and under 20K. I'm not big on expensive vehicles, I'd rather have extra cash to spend on bike projects.
