Let's be honest. "Dreamers" = illegals

I am sorry, but this is still ridiculous. Knock a bunch of buildings down, defeat a people? OK, lol.

 

Well, there's an issue...it was in our self interest to build up West Germany and Japan as the USSR was our new enemy/competitor. That and as occupiers of WG and J we had responsibilities. The Marshall plan was, after all, mostly about not repeating the mistakes of WWI. Just what are our responsibilities towards Mexico? They send us illiterate workers, sell us cheap goods undercutting our own economy and import more illegal drugs than any other place. Build the damn wall, kick out the illegals and fix the immigration system. Been arrested in the US previously? Gang tattoos? Too damn bad. Have people (ie legals) in the US that can vouch for you and keep you off welfare? That would be a good start.

 

Sounds like you support open borders? If so, that's cool - its definitely cool to have your opinion and stance, but logistically and realistically, that's simply not possible.

Moving takes effort, but it doesn't take productive effort. If I quit my job to relocate to another state in the United States, then apply for unemployment in the new state, they'd tell me to go pound sand, regardless of how productive I was in my old job, in my old state. Its because I haven't contributed anything. In the case of illegals, some people (and I'm not saying you, but if it includes you, so be it) want to dismiss the situation without regarding whether they've done anything productive to help themselves. As a non-citizen, not in the country legally, why should anyone benefit in the same way citizens and those waiting to become citizens do? I don't get the argument for that position. If that's the case, citizenship means nothing. When you start going that direction - why pay taxes, why buy into a system of government, why buy into laws? Sure, you might not violate a law because it fits your belief system, but if there's no benefit for "membership", I'm immediately tossing out a few laws that don't benefit me personally.

 

Christ, if you're going to make historical comments, at least educate yourself on the history first. You can start by googling 'Marshall Plan'...

 

No, why don't you. You think WW2 was a layup? Here's a hint, it doesn't start or end with the US. Nor will WW3.

 

Lawn Dart. No, I absolutely do not support open borders. But I do support dealing with reality in a humane way that is consistent with the tenets upon which this nation was founded. Kick them out? Get real. That is political posturing that will never happen. Divisive. Counter-productive. Ergo grandfathering. Meet the requirements, come in from the cold, attain your citizenship (and fulfill all the attendant obligations), after that, no.

 

It's also the law.

And that's why people are so fucking fed up with the assholes in power.

So reward lawlessness and the good fortune of. It getting caught breaking the law. Will that encourage lawful behavior? Or something else?

 

Oh you have nooooo idea the life I had growing up.........dont talk to me about"if I lived in poverty". I know you probably didnt mean anything by it,and I will leave it at that. And as for them "not knowing"........please,ive lived with salvadorans since 1987. Its you that is the one "not knowing"

 

Well, a big part of what got Trump elected is that half the nation is years-beyond-pissed at the illegal immigration problem. We need real solutions that don't amount to amnesty "if you're already here we'll let you stay".

You have to send illegals home. Round them up, prioritize it in a meaningful way - 1st those in prison, 2nd those in jails, 3rd those who previously committed crimes, but are out in society, 4th those who "haven't done anything wrong" but have only been here less than 15 years, 5th those who "haven't done anything wrong" but have been here "their entire lives", 6th adults who were brought here as kids. Any current kids would go back with their parents at whatever time their parents went home.

Firm up the Southern border. No one cares about "the wall" other than as a euphemism for "stop all illegal immigration". I'm sure some portions of wall, additional agents, and very aggressive re-landing illegals in the countries they came from will do the trick.

Do that while "reforming immigration laws". I don't blame anyone who came here to make a better life for themselves. That in itself doesn't guarantee you the privilege of staying.

If I was in charge, I'd allow grown men and women whose parents brought them here at a young age to stay (pending some serious criteria), but half the country is pissed at years of fecklessness from our leadership. I suspect that if we all saw some aggressive strengthening of our system, some compromise could be worked out for DACA peeps, but without that strengthening folks will want to throw out the baby with the bath water, so to speak..

 

Nope I don't support taking them from their parents, I was responding to the post above that they were citizens, not part of DACA. Who suggested taking the children and putting them in the foster system.

 

Then you'll have to make a new law for that since they're already deporting vets that have served active duty.
http://www.npr.org/2016/01/13/46237...zens-meet-the-veterans-who-have-been-deported

 

Me.

Unless you'd rather they were left on the streets.

 

That makes more sense.

 

Those are kinda sorta half true. Germany already had a well established democratic government long before the war that held up after. The foundation was long ago solidified.

Likewise... Japan had decades of westernization and a weakening of the emperor's power before WWII.

Way easier to get those moving towards our ideals than say... a place that had inherited royalty or warlord rule (as you may have noticed elsewhere).

 

I think the thing you're overlooking is that this approach was essentially tried already ... and failed. Why? We're right back here with a whole bunch of illegals in the country ... again. Basically, the masses have learned that if they just do what they want, the liberals will support just giving them their way again and again and again. Why even have immigration laws if we continue to not even attempt to enforce them or secure the border. I think this is what leads people to assuming you support open borders.

 

See how minor changes point out the fallacy in your argument...or at least the assignation of blame. We've done amnesty before. They still ignore the law. Their own country has strict border policies, yet we are to be open? Congress has had decades to posture and buy votes on the back of citizens, all races. Even now, there is no significant action other than wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth on capitol hill. If I am transferred for work (or my wife if she is the primary breadwinner), the children move too. The parents have often had decades to get thing done legally. Congress has had decades to fix the immigration laws, but their love of divisive issues has resulted in nothing. Enforce the law or change it.

 

the argument is pointless. Trump is gutless. Congress is gutless. Nothing is going to change. Nothing.

 

I see no fallacy. The last word of one of my prior posts was no. Make the law. Enforce the law. Blame assignment for prior mistakes is for the bitter and jaded and so on. You all are always perfect from the get go? Move forward.

 

DACA was an executive order put in place in 2012 because congress is filled with a spineless subspecies of humans that refuse to do what needs to be done to comply with their oath of office. Five years is enough time for those affected to have gotten their act together (including Congress). Time to stop subsidizing procrastination. Fix it or enforce it.

Yzass, no we are not always right from the get go just as doing it "for the children" is not a morally superior argument.