helicopter / jet collision in DC

If most government workers suck, why should we care what the NTSB report says? Wasn't that created by government workers?

 

Nope. The IP(instructor pilot) was ultimately responsible for that flight. He let her go to far. He was in charge of that flight. I didn’t fly Blackhawks, but I am pretty sure they would have been flying off the radar altimeter for altitude. Those route altitudes are in above ground level, not MSL. I would as you can set a low or high alert on most.

 

Yeah, but we know all that already.....jet was flying in...switched to RWY 33, as they were turning onto final/on short final the choppa was in the wrong spot and too high and hit them.

 

How dare you provide a response that doesn't blame the wominz and DEI.

How do the DEI is bad folks feel about the old boy system? For example, I read (not a verified source though) that RFK's college app contained only the line "I'm RFK junior" as the reason he should be admitted. Of course that could be total BS, but we all know that names have their privilege and get people farther ahead in life then merit alone.

I've also heard the military is the last great meritocracy. And yet people still get promoted because the people they work for are sick of their shit and want to get rid of them -- personal anecdote from a friend who was in Ramadi and Falluja II and referencing a major in his chain of command.

 

I think DEI is garbage. But this is the way it is-the Warrant Officer keeps RLOs(real live officers) out of trouble and alive when it comes to flying. That captain may not have flown for a few years since they reported she was at the WH previously. He should have been very ready for crap like that. WOs are the main flyers in the Army. RLOs are the Christmas help. They show up for command, do shit to try to one up the previous guy, then leave for another staff job or school.

 

Over the tidal Potomac where the helicopter was flying, there isn't going to be any more than 6 feet of difference between MSL and AGL and that would only be if there was an exceptionally high or low tide at the time. More likely zero to three feet difference.

 

You think that there's a chance he was setting her up to fail with unintended consequences?

That's the vibe I get with admittedly very little actual knowledge.

 

So, barring a incorrect altimeter setting 3 people on that check flight and 1 ATC missed that they were above their limited ceiling as this conflict was about to happen?

 

Doubtful. If he let her get a flight violation he would be responsible. Actually, the violation would be on him.

 

Crewchief has nothing to do with run up like that. I would probably say Once AT C cleared the Blackhawk behind the RJ he immediately went to the next aircraft to deal with. I have never flown there, but as I understand they are very busy. And short.

it takes seconds to gain 125 feet in a 60.

And it is easier than you think in a busy joint, and when visibility sucks, to gain that altitude.

 

so there are no pressure changes there when the weather changes? I beg to differ.

 

I don’t think you understand how this works.

 

On the closer video, it appears to my eye, as untrained compared to the pilots here as it may be, that the CRJ pulled up and left at the last second.

Only saying that it seemed to me they saw it last second, not that I'm placing blame on them.

I still believe the helicopter was in the wrong, regardless of pilot, where they were too high and too far into the river.

 

I'm just saying if your familiar with this equipment you know what a 100 ft feels like and your trained to watch your instruments. Your instructor is not gonna let you just climb at will. Something just doesn't add up...

 

I believe what I said would apply to the actual MSL and AGL. What the instruments in a given plane say could be totally different.

 

Based on what I've seen presented so far, I don't think ATC has better than +/- 100 ft on their screens. ATC screen would be showing 002 or 003 for 150-349ft so not great.

With more time to ponder, It seems ATC really should have taken more control of their airspace and held the helo at Hains Point when they got the 1st CA. Timing of both aircraft was always going to put them too close. Watching Juan's vid, there is a huge technology difference between the L and V models of UH-60. I can't help but think if they were flying the V model there would have been more data available and automated warnings. If using manual set altimeters, it's crazy to see just 0.1" Hg is 100ft. Variations of 0.5" over 24 hours is pretty common.

 

I have never flown a military helicopter that you didn’t manually set the altimeter. Even the 407GX I fly now with a G1000 in it is manually set. Even with glass cockpits, in my experience , the altimeter is driven by the standby entry, or a knob that drives the MFD. Again, never flown 60s. We have some pretty significant pressure changes here in SC.

 

I've flown with women that are great pilots and men who have no business in an aircraft. And vice versa. So just because she was a woman means nothing. What's more important is she probably hadn't flown in 2 years and had 45o hours which is about 150 hours after flight school and we are pretty certain not much of it was in the last 2 years on NVGs. If he was on the radios, she was flying. And he was probably busy instructing.

The altimeter argument is a red herring- there's 3 altimeters and they are on our checklists several times per flight. Anything is possible but as someone stated above they were likely using the radar altimeter as many helo drivers do.

The setup to this accident is what is fucked- the procedure that allows it is bullshit and they've been getting away with it for years because of the experience level of crews and controllers. There is NO WAY that helo had that CRJ in sight at 6 miles and 200' when initially called. He just said he did so he could get his clearance. On the second call, the controller saw it was going to be close and called them again- I believe a more experienced controller would have seen how close it was going to be and told them to turn left. And a more experienced helo crew would have been looking around and had the situational awareness to know something wasn't right.

The CRJ crew did get a TRAFFIC TRAFFIC alert at 500' 10 sec prior to impact but they were likely turning away from it and didn't see it. We get them all the time in this kind of airspace. They could have initiated a go-around, but in their shoes, I probably wouldn't have either. You are cleared to land and only seconds away from touchdown, you would assume that was some kind of anomaly, like an airplane on the ground or something. IF they had been advised "traffic at your 3 o'clock a helicopter has you in sight will pass behind" THEN they might have gone around. We'll never know.

Still pissed about this one.

First real Spec Miata race this weekend at Sebring, there's 45 spec Miatas entered. Wish me luck!

 

Throw a rod!! Sounds awesome!!!!