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For the FTP's amongst us

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by ryoung57, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    I see a lot of focusing on anything they think will justify the shooting.
    Does the officer claim he was dragged? I haven't seen that.
    There is video of another cop talking to the shooter within moments of the incident, and he doesn't say he was dragged.
  2. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member

    Actually Mike, I was responding to RFKA's continued insistence that the man died as a result of being in a choke hold. Are you saying the same thing? I understand that being in respiratory distress is different than being in a choke hold which the man was not subjected to according to experts.

    Why the fuck are we still discussing/arguing over this event? No one is going to change their mind so I think I'm about through with it. OK? We're getting nowhere.
  3. BR549

    BR549 Well-Known Member

    Gentlemen, gentlemen, if a video is a police department's property, then they can do what they want with it. They can release it, or withhold it, as they see fit until, through due process, a subpoena directs them to give it up. THAT is the current rule of law on the matter. Didn't you assclowns know this? Anyway, if you don't like it, then I recommend you move to Thailand. I'm sure the police there can't wait to give you what you want. :D
  4. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member

    Well hell, did I say that the police were above the law. Did I say that the general public never has the right to oversee law enforcement? What I said is that it's not the general public's position to be commenting, and critiquing the police when the general public has no information other than a damn news story about a video taken by someone that only started videoing the event halfway through it's cycle and stuck it on youtube. Do you understand that?
  5. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    And it convinces us that the lying motherfuckers are subverting justice, and that's the reality. The more they hide, the more we know they have hidden.
    When I see them hiding evidence, it weighs heavily against them.
  6. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    Here's a recent editorial on these occurrences from one of the most conservative newspapers in the country.

    Protecting officers? Release shooting information more quickly

    Hagen Esty-Lennon of Canterbury was shot to death by two Haverhill police officers on July 6, and the video of the confrontation, recorded on an officer’s body camera, will not be released to the public until Wednesday. In New Hampshire, this sort of delay is all too common.

    Police say Esty-Lennon, age 41, lunged at the officers while wielding a knife. A still photo taken from the video and released Friday shows Esty-Lennon running toward an officer who has his gun drawn. The Attorney General’s report, released Friday, says the shooting was justified. The identities of the officers, undisclosed for weeks, were included in the report.

    Despite a right-to-know request made by this newspaper on July 9, the Attorney General’s office kept the video and the officers’ identies secret for weeks. Esty-Lennon’s identity, though, was made public right away.

    Police records are public records. Police departments routinely release the identities of arrested individuals immediately. Arrest reports also contain the names of officers. But when officers are involved in shootings, their names usually are kept secret. That creates the impression that departments are giving officers protections unavailable to members of the public.

    Albert “Buzz” Scherr, a professor of law at the University of New Hampshire School of Law, said last week that officers’ names should be released immediately. He also said the state Attorney General’s office needs a firm policy requiring the release of videos within a narrow window of time.

    These are great recommendations, and the governor should act on them. It does not take a law for the governor to order the AG’s office to release videos and other public information in a timely fashion. A law, though, might be what it takes to guarantee the public has more timely access to its own records involving police shootings.
    - See more at: http://www.unionleader.com/article/20150803/OPINION01/150809875/1004/opinion#sthash.MiJWeOUe.dpuf
  7. Britt

    Britt Well-Known Member

    No need for facts here in the dungon...

    Don't want to get dragged.. Don't reach in to a vehicle...
    Don't want to get popped in the head, don't get stopped...
    Want a bunch of shit..you don't want.. Do either.:up:
  8. BR549

    BR549 Well-Known Member

    I'm sure they're concerned about your thoughts on reality.
  9. Banditracer

    Banditracer Dogs - because people suck

    :stupid: Just like when you destroy your cellphone the day of a hearing. Makes you look a little guilty.
  10. nigel smith

    nigel smith Well-Known Member

    A police department's property? Who would you say ultimately owns that property? Failure to release these videos in a reasonable time frame simply engenders the appearance of obfuscation. Given the current level of respect enjoyed by the law enforcement community, I would contend that it would behoove these departments to go above and beyond in an effort to ensure transparency. Effective policing without the cooperation of the citizenry is not a feasible long term proposition.
  11. Britt

    Britt Well-Known Member

    If they have "nothing to hide" the they should have no issues with the video being out in the light of day...:)

    It and they are paid for with TaxPayer funds... Who are the TaxPayers again?
    Yep, The Citizens, We The People.
  12. Fonda Dix

    Fonda Dix Well-Known Member

    And we are seeing that every day. We have a group here that listens to scanners and then immediately goes to traffic stops and films. The police hate it SO much.

    Additionally, with each damaging thing on police that arises, the number of officer deaths will climb. The inner city already views them as just another gang. That attitude is creeping into the burbs and into whites real fast.
  13. Rob P

    Rob P Well-Known Member

    Videos are like any other piece of evidence. The police have no obligation to release evidence to the general public at all. I don't think releasing a video on its own does anything for transparency. If anything, releasing a video without the full context of the evidence simply serves to taint a case. Hell, look how many in the dungeon will look at a video and come to a conclusion without even considering the other evidence? If the point of the videos are to ensure justice, release them appropriately to the right people. If you want transparency, you need an outside panel to review incidents, not the media or the general public.
  14. Fonda Dix

    Fonda Dix Well-Known Member

    no media?
    no general public?

    Whom do you suggest provide the oversight? More cops? :confused:
  15. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

  16. Rob P

    Rob P Well-Known Member

    Do you think it is possible to put together a panel made up of prosecutors, police union members, retired or ex-cops and civic leaders (or members appointed by them) to form a committee to review and debate these incidents?

    In the real world we'd call this an ethics committee.
  17. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    How does releasing a video "taint the evidence"?
    Be specific.
  18. Rob P

    Rob P Well-Known Member

    It taints the jury pool. Case in point this thread. According to many here there is no other possible narrative other than murder. Then you have guys like DB who only consider the one piece of evidence "I saw the garner video" therefore I know it all.

    In the search for truth you must be open to both sides. You must be open to the possibility that Officer Ray Tensing murdered Sam Dubose as well as the POSSIBILITY that Tensing acted in self defense. Pivotal to that point will be was Officer Tensing being dragged BEFORE he pulled his weapon. The video is not clear on this and frankly there are perception issues because of this particular video. An analogy would be like walking in on a man stabbing an unconscious woman in the neck. Your immediate reaction would be "oh my god, he's killing her"! Without any other information you would stick to that and believe it as an unshakeable truth. Now if someone told you that man was a physician, the woman was chocking and he was performing an emergency chrichoidotomy to try and save her life the whole picture changes.
    Video is not the whole story, it is a snapshot, a brief glimpse in time. It tells part of a story, not the whole story. But most people aren't interested in the whole story, just that easily grasped moment in time that they can wrap their head around and covet. But most stories involve many layers, this one is no different.
  19. Fonda Dix

    Fonda Dix Well-Known Member

    Prosecutors: are and have always been allies of police.
    Police Union members: protect their own
    retired and ex-cops: protect their own
    civic leaders: depends on who they are and where they are from.

    I prefer a citizens review board consisting of the employers of cops, which are the citizens. The cops can have a single member of the board, not an overwhelming majority.
  20. BR549

    BR549 Well-Known Member

    The government.....federal, state, county, or local.....owns it. Not the public in the context you mean. It's the same legal domain that allows you (the public) to be arrested for disorderly conduct if you show your ass in a government building, like a city hall, or that prevents you (the public) from being able to drive a government-owned vehicle, like a police car, just because you feel like it. I completely agree with you that a government entity withholding a video that might make a government employee look bad makes the matter look much worse and, maybe, there should be a streamlined way of compelling a government entity to release such a video, but, for now, it takes a subpoena.....unless you can sweet-talk someone into giving it to you.

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