Excuse me very much, but...

It's important to at least try to have some understanding of the impact of the psychological trauma this girl went through. Psychological trauma can make people do freaky stuff, including identifying with the captor. It's unacceptable to sit comfortably in front of our computers and talk about how easy it would have been to escape. Have you ever been abducted? Talked with someone who has? When confronted with a real and immediate life and death situation, many folks find themselves in the unheroic position of having just defecated on themselves.

It's even more important to avoid blaming the victim. What's next? Shall we blame rape victims for looking good?

For all I know this girl did have fantasies of running away, prior to her abduction. Maybe her dad is a nut. Who cares. She DID NOT wish to be abducted. She will be dealing with these events for the rest of her life. Empathy is in order here, not criticism.

Frankly, I'm disgusted that anyone would focus the girls' imperfect qualities as victims.

thane

 

Maybe you should talk to a P.O.W.!

 

maybe he has

 

complete, and utter balderdash.

reach a lttle more.

 

you mean like a "reach-around?"

 

For the record, I have not yet worked with POWs. Maybe one day I'll get to. I have a modest amount of experience working with folks with domestic trauma, child abuse, and rape.

The notion I was trying to convey last night with my fatigue-addled brain was that sometimes people have seemingly crazy responses to patently insane circumstances. We can't count on anyone to act rationally, problem solve effectively, or behave normally when confronted with an event that is wildly outside the bounds of normal experience. If one understands and accepts this premise, the girls' behaviors becomes somewhat more comprehensible.


thane

 

Thane, in your professional view, how do you contrast the experience of the two girls that were kidnapped last year (the ones that stabbed their kidnapper) vs Elizabeth? They fought their attacker, whereas Elizabeth was complacent, perhaps cooperative to the end, even during the arrest.

Is there something in the upbringing, education, or otherwise that leads to these very different responses? If so, how does a parent prepare or educate their children to respond?

 

Let me prefice my comments by saying that-unlike other posts I've made-this is not one of those times where I feel like I have all the answers. To really feel like I had a handle on things, I'd want to talk with the families. Since I can't, I don't know how much of value I can offer.

The first thing that pops to mind is a construct called locus of control. In short, people who have an internal locus of control tend to feel as though they are in command of their destinies. They assume responsibility for outcomes, positive or negative. On the other hand, people who have an external locus of control tend to put their fate in the hands of, well, fate--or God, social institutions, or other powerful influences. Out of respect for peoples' faiths, I feel compelled to state my opinion that having an internal locus of control is not inconsistent with placing one's life in the hands of a higher power. "God helps those who help themselves," goes the saying.

MAYBE, Elizabeth has an external locus of control, whereas the other girls didn't. In other words, maybe Elizabeth felt swept up by the abduction, whereas the other girls tried to maintain control. In anycase, my feeling is that locus of control would not account for all of the variance in behavior, just some at best.

The impression I'm getting is that Elizabeth's main defence or schema for survival was cooperation. Defences take on a life of their own. Defences stay operative, even after they are no longer useful, or even after they've become harmful. Elizabeth's cooperation sounds like that kind of dynamic. Defenses and schemas are the subconscious rules by which we live. Elizabeth's appears to be a very striking example of this dynamic. BTW, I'm really struggling to explain this concept briefly, and I have no idea whether or not I'm making any sense.

We can assume that the two attackers varied in their assault. The different approach probably accounts for some of the difference in outcome.

Finally, the different girls had different perceptions of what increased their likelihood for survival. They assessed their situations; weighed their options; and employed the strategies that they thought maximized their chances for survival. Thanks cannot be overstated that they both lived through their ordeals.

In terms of what we as parents can do, I think we can teach our children to take responsibility for outcomes-to connect action with consequence. In other words to foster a sense of an internal locus of control.

We can also try to tread that narrow line between preparing our children, without unnecessarily scaring them. We can teach them strategies to employ, such that they're not like deer caught in the headlights. Teach them to politely decline to go with strangers. Teach them that nice strangers will understand that they can't talk or go anywhere with them. Only mean, lying strangers wouldn't understand. Teach them to scream at the top of their lungs if they're afraid, and don't be worried, if they were mistaken. Everyone will understand and forgive them. Finally, teach them to trust their feelings. If something feels wrong, it probably is, and get away; fight like hell if you have to and scream. And I guess it would be a good thing to take our kids to martial arts classes; so that they can fight better, if they have to.

Like I said, I don't know any of these girls or their families; so I really don't know why the girls made different choices. Still, the experiences of these girls remind us to talk with our kids about the dangers in the world. You can fit that in between sex ed and why you should say no to drugs. Luck to us all.

thane

 

a five page statement to say "i don't know" sweet thane.

 

i think the father is really Ned Flanders

 

Brevity has never been one of my strong suits. I mean, what I'm trying to say is...

thane

 

And Thane overlooked the most obvious difference. The two girls in California had each other for support and communication. Smart had no one but the kidnapper. I've said before something seems fishy, but I am just glad this teen is back with her family.

 

Thane: for those of us that are sick of the homophobic, cretin-level name calling and foul-mouth bashing, it's kind of nice to read an intellectual response

 

good ole' sill assed eric and his totally predictable "cowardly dive bomb" comments. at least thane got what i said. must suck to be you eric.

 

I'm not sure whether this is a real explanation of what a Mormon is, or if its just a wind-up. However, I guess I will have to believe what you say, although it does all sound a bit far-fetched (the angel MORONI ??? - yeah, right )

 

Moroni was the son of Mormon. Remember that from one of my gut courses - History of Religions.

Turns out it's also a city on one of the Comoro Islands off the East coast of Africa. There's been some speculation that Joseph Smith's visions somehow were influenced by those islands as there are a few very important names in the Book of Mormon (Moroni, Cumorah) that appear to be very similar or identical. Can't remember much else - it's been way too long!

 

And somebody went ahead and gave the OK to base a whole religion on the Jo Smith character???

I'm sure it all seems alot more credible if I were to really spend the time to investigate its root - but just on the surface of things, it all sounds a little crack-pot to me.

Mormons - the religion with 1 'm' too many.

 

No wind-up. There is actually a gold statue of Moroni atop the huge Morman Tabernacle in Salt Lake City. Also of note is that the Morman church owns many businesses, newspapers, TV stations in the Salt Lake area. Most, if not all of Utah's politicians are Morman. The LDS church wields an enormous amount of power in that state. A good read is a book called,"The Maze of Mormanism". Also, "the Morman Murders".

 

certainly much more far-fetched than the Angel Gabriel, right?

 

For what it's worth...

When I was being starved and getting the shit stomped out of me by my folks, I was scared to tell anyone. I was more afraid of what my parents might do to me if someone found out than anything else. By age 13, I had enough of it and began looking for a way out. I had reasoned that, by running away, I wouldn't get beat anymore yet no one would have to know what was going on. The most difficult thing was getting the courage to just run away. However reasonable or unreasonable, I was frightened into inaction by the threats and actions of my parents, regardless of the authorities. If the school principal had not intervened in the way he did, God knows where I'd be .