This question came up on another board. Are cartridge emulators legal in WERA vintage classes? The rule books says that period forks must be used and that stock internal parts can be changed to alter damping characteristics. Since the rule says "changed" and not "replaced" or "added", I' think that means you can only alter the stock parts. Unless emulators were part of the stock forks you're using, they're not legal. Correct intrepretation?
Bill you alter the damping characteristics by opening up the compression orifice and 'changing' the stock internal parts with ones that work, like emulators.
Actually, is this Bill running in 350GP? That Bill? 222 with two black zip ties around both front forks to measure travel? Because if so, I covet your forks, Bill...I want them, I lust after them... Why? Observe yon 222 and squint real hard and look for those zip ties... THAT is a fork doing fork things, as in using all of its travel...THIS is good... Now then, look at this schmuck! Look at the orange zip tie on the left fork leg using a grand total of 7/8's of an inch ALL around Summit...THIS is not so good (with emulators)... So Bill? Be careful what you wish for....
I really didn't plan on getting emulators. Just curious about the rules. Good point though. I'd definitely think carefully before changing anything. Nice photo too. It's not often I get to see myself ahead of Midge461! Who took the photo? I'd like to keep it but don't want to mess with anyone's copyright.
Real nice fella out of Hagerstown named Ron, Sports Event Photos...You can find him here... http://photos.sportseventphotos.com/
Bill You get to play the underdog card, but I bet your front brake is worth more laptime than my emulators.
Nice photos chum, and you still have some sorting out to do? Looks like I might be buying you a chili dog. Got it, nix on the emulators, I will just stay with stock internals like I always have.
Nah, I think if you're a reasonably intelligent human being who can follow directions, or have someone that knows their stuff like Traxxion set them up, you can probably benefit from emulators...I've heard nothing but good things about them... I think if you're me on the other hand, you will spend a fair amount of time beating your head on the work bench and muttering to yourself...
Whenever I asked Kent at GMD a suspension question his first response was "do you have emulators in there?'' [ hint: this was meant as a question and answer]
Hey Chum....those are some excellent pictures, from both a technical and artistic perspective...really shows what you guys are talking about. My honest answer is I dont know if I'm running emulators or not! I'm having difficulty getting the thing to stop tearing up crankshafts ....handling is not at the top of my list right now....it handles fine on the stand in the shop! its possible I have them in the bike I bought. The bike I built does not have emulators. I agree with Rosko's interpretation.
Well, I got a question for you guys, what is the stock fork oil capacity called for by Honda for early CB750 forks? Off the top of my head I think it's something on the order of 5.2-5.8 oz depending upon whether it's a simple fork oil replacement or complete tear down... I know, I know, the proper way is to measure the oil level with the spring out, fully collapsed, and it should be 130mm from the top of the tube...Alright, been there, done that, once already...I'm just curious if I go the bonehead route and dump oil in the things by volume as per Honda factory specs what it would measure out at... Basically what I got going on acts just like a hydrostatic lock of some sort...Less than an inch of travel and the forks are topped out with me on the bike -- fully topped out, no sag whatsoever...That sounds overfilled to me, but if the things were I'll be damned if I know where the additional oil came from because they left here 130mm from the top of the upper fork tube, collapsed, no spring, as per Traxxion specs... I'm missing something here, and I'm not going to lie to you, the bars swapping back and forth coming out of nine trying to get a drive at Summit is friggen attention getting, and the weave on the front straight was less than pleasant as well...
Might be more than just one thing, Chris, but the suspension definitely needs attention. I agree it sounds like the forks are overfilled, but what are the spring rates and oil viscosity and how much preload is on the springs? How straight is the bike? Has it ever been measured accurately? For the weave I'd check the steering damper for binding first, then steering head bearing condition for binding or wear and make sure the torque is set properly - too tight will exacerbate a weave. What's the condition of the S/A bushings, wheels, bearings, etc? The amount of inherent flex and wobble in these things compared to a modern bike is huge...throw in a little unplanned wobbling anywhere and it gets way too lively. Even if all the chassis components are good, if the suspension isn't working it's a handful...throw in a slightly bent steering head or S/A and it can be truly terrifying. I know a lot of vintage racers seem to think it's in the spirit of the thing to just ride around poor handling, but a reasonable compromise would be to send just the forks to a good suspension shop, and get them upgraded (emulators ) and properly set up with the right springs, oil and compression valve setting to start with. You'll appreciate the, oh so supple, ride and predictable handling. If you really want to know that the chassis is working to its potential, and want to focus on riding the thing: It'll cost more up front, but you might save in the long run by knowing exactly the state of your chassis. Only downside is that when some wild man from 350GP passes you on a leaky, creaky $800 stocker you won't have an excuse.
Hey Eric...OK, spring rate is .85 as per Traxxion recommendation, I have a pair of .90 sitting in a box, fork oil was 20wt., preload was Traxxion supplied spacer PLUS three flat washers... I'm gonna bleed the things thoroughly, go with the same springs, 10wt., start with the oil level on the low side (I can add easy enough) and lose the washers this time around and see if I can generate some travel out of these things...Hell, some sag for that matter... I'm double checking steering head bearings again after my hasty, last minute tightening up job prior to Summit... Honestly, I think (for whatever that's worth) that the weave at the end of the front straight may have been from the front forks being topped out and the front wheel being unable to respond to dips in the track, maybe coupled with steering head bearings that are still not in spec... I might have been able to get away with that nonsense at Summit, but Nelson would make me pay in a big way for those problems and I really don't feel like pitching this bike due to my seeming inability to sort out this suspension. It's too good a bike for that...
A great solution presented here: trashcan all of those problematic Hondas and git yourselfs some Yam RD 2-strokers, with GP-style suspension built by specialists in the Yam factory using tuning forks to precisely calculate the proper settings. Race in style, not doubt. Stop worrying and ride. Live large.:up:
Charles? Do I have to remind you again of the shelf load of melted Wiseco pistons residing over my right shoulder a few scant feet away from me this very minute serving as a constant reminder of past two-stroke "glories"? Here, watch Charles, are you watching? I'm going to slowly turn my head now to the right...Oh YES, there they are, all lined up abreast, having given their all to some insidious oil burner...That's enough of that, Chaz...
You've gone too far now...so everyone pay attention: Chummie here has this collection of Wiseco pistons in broken splendor because he was insistent on using Marvel Mystery Oil at 50:1 instead of a top-rated 2-stroker lubricant. If you can't blame yourself, blame the bike. Shame, Chummie, have you no shame Sir?
Why am I not surprised that you'd resort to these Joseph Goebbels-style, two-stroke malcontent, distortions of the truth, Chuck? I still have shelves downstairs lined with Bel-Ray's finest synthetic as well as a bottle of Paul Gast's magic goo that was guaranteed to produce 270 rwhp and cure male pattern baldness... Made no difference to the miserable lump in question, it was quite happy seizing at the end of the first available long straight usually at the most inauspicious time (When the malicious turd wasn't winning races)...Thanks, I'll take a rain check, I have no need to go through that again...
