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AHRMA Dissolution?

Discussion in 'WERA Vintage' started by 83BSA, Oct 30, 2006.

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  1. limy_1

    limy_1 Crash Starter

    Thank you Mongo for allowing this to go on here.

    Now, no interest? Legal wise ok
    AHRMA & WERA are the main avenues for vintage racing.
    Lets face it vintage is a struggle in WERA, at least in my region.
    IfAHRMA were to disappear it should help the WERA program.
    I am not implying an us vs. them issue but when you are the only show in town.
  2. weber#465

    weber#465 mud fight

    Mongo, another thanks for letting people use this to try and get the info out.
    I raced Wera on a fzr 600 a few year ago and was treated great by the staff and fellow riders. I raced AHRMA BOT last year and some this year and have the same report about the riders and the staff (except W.H.).

    Guess what I meant with "what if it were WERA" is we all have a love for the sport and I hate to see something that could shut eigther one down.

    If there were someone with a long drawn out law suit that was about to cripple WERA into extinction I would hope people who might get the powers that be to see it is only hurting the riders if it happens. When it get to the courts its not personal its buisness.

    AHRMA has cross country, MX, trials, dirt track, and road racing so it can hurt a lot of riders.

    Mr.Iannucci is someone with lots of $ (land developer/a retired New York attorney/etc...) and SEEMS to be (as with his letter) systematically doing things that is making everone afraid of a law suit until AHRMA is in the history books. Does this guy have ties with the "mob" and they are paying people visits?
  3. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    Thank you Mongo.
  4. TrentThomas

    TrentThomas .........

  5. cspargo

    cspargo Well-Known Member

    Hey! Now there's an idea!

    Oh wait - you're right. You SHOULD just hang around here and stir up the AHRMA membership on a competing board.

    If YOU'RE so outraged, why don't YOU do something constructive about it? It's not as if you're historically in the AHRMA camp on this one.

    Doesn't anybody else see this is an obvious ploy to try and breed mistrust and turn us against ourselves? As an explicit member of what can only be referred to as "the other side", why are we letting him stir OUR soup?
  6. Paige

    Paige BBS FF Champ

    They must make a bunch at the other events besides roadracing. :)

    I hope this situation resolves itself soon and the people who are corrupting the organization are gone and you can move forward.
  7. YAM#849

    YAM#849 y'all watch this...

    But for the dirt guys, there would be NO show in town if that happened. Unless Mongo suddenly wanted to run vintage dirt events (I don't see that).
  8. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Nope, I don't have the slightest clue about MX or dirt track stuff.
  9. charles

    charles The Transporter

    Well, well, a real witches' brew going...the only real question herein is for AHRMA members themselves to answer: were you totally satisfied, over the long years, with AHRMA's official explanation of this lawsuit, the reasons therefore, and who was paying for it? As members, did you question, did you
    receive adequate and verifiable answers? Did you obtain copies of the court filings, which are public record, to see for yourself? Before anyone villifies
    Ianucci/T.O., please be reminded that your 'right' to race a motorcycle does not trump anyone's legal rights. AHRMA has them, and so does Ianucci/T.O.
    At this juncture, perhaps the only real question remaining, and perhaps the answer has already been provided, between the lines so to speak, is this:
    who paid for this costly litigation and exactly how much? 83BSA should be given much credit for making a sincere effort to 'do something' to try to save
    the day for vintage racing. Thanks to Mongo for demonstrating the right to
    free (and decent) speech. Am I being un-objective, lads?
  10. phantom 309

    phantom 309 Well-Known Member

    I do believe the money for the club is in roadracing.They have some big grids at most of the races.I love all my wrea friends but I hate to see the true vintage grids fall to what they are.I would love to be at more wera races next year but don't want to spend the money to only race one or two guys.So what can we do to up the wera grids.At barbers 500 premier had 22 bikes on the grid and so did the gp classes.Ahrma has made so much money over the years they started some investment accounts to make better returns on there money.A big thank you to mongo for putting up with this and I hope both groups will have bigger and better turnout for 07.:up:
  11. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    Just to clarify, Rob is still licensed as an attorney in NY state and is not shown as retired.

    The problem for AHRMA is that Rob could spend all his time on the case and have only his out of pocket expenses. AHMRA, on the other hand, has to pay its counsel by the hour. Insurance defense work usually pays around $150 to $200 per hour in the bigger markets. AHMRA should be able to find very competent counsel for those rates.
  12. weber#465

    weber#465 mud fight

    I agree Rodger
    sounds like a thorn in AHRMA's side has gotten a serious infection.

    Sorry if my info is wrong. I was going on what I could find (http://www.pt728.com/aboutus.html) and am not trying to start saying he is anything he is not.

    I was suprized to see, in the letter, how good people that was trying to run a club to help us race are being called "rats".

    I'm not trying to say he is the bad guy but if the info in right and he is the one who brought the suit then how is he the victom in this if the courts have said he have no basis for a suit?

    What is it he wants?

    Is "funding a sixteen (16) year legal battle" or "AHRMA bosses in the past twelve years hassling Team Obsolete" true or is it the other way around.
  13. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I am very curious about why it's taken so long too - who has been delaying this thing going to court?
  14. krypton7

    krypton7 Well-Known Member

    A Story

    Has AHRMA fucked with Iannucci?

    Let me tell you a true story from several years ago. I may not have all the details correct but essentially it's right. It goes like this:

    Don't even remember the year, '98 maybe..........

    Around the time of the AHRMA Mid-Ohio meet, a letter was sent out to AHRMA members that used an AHRMA proprietary membership list (not available to just anyone), The envelopes, paper and stamps had no identification to sort out the sender but the story went something like this:

    During the 1920s, give or take some time, a woman in Vienna, Austria was renting apartments from a building she owned. At one point she evicted a poor young man who was placed out on the street without food nor shelter and without a place to turn. That eviction changed that man's life; he went on to become involved in politics and rose up to become a powerful figure in world politics. Because he was evicted by this worman who was Jewish, he hated all Jews. He became responsible for the death of millions of people. His name was Adolf Hitler

    The landloard who evicted Hitler had a small son. That son moved to America and, in turn had a son who grew up to become a slum landlord and attorney in New York City. That man's name is Robert Iannucci.

    AHRMA refused Iannucci's request to help find out who sent out this dispicable letter. So you be the judge, had the old guard at AHRMA gone too far?

    There are other stories too, but this one really fucking stinks and I, for one, thought that Jeff Smith and company went too far. Further, they refused to help find the Jew-baiting bastard who wrote that story. So not to lionize Iannucci, but I do empathize with his anger and frustration concerning the old guard at AHRMA. And this is only one of several personal attacks at him.
    I know them all and will be willing to share more of these with you.

    Stuart Carter, WERA #76, AHRMA #76
  15. push rod

    push rod Well-Known Member

    How can ahrma make money?

    A number of people have asked how AHRMA could make the kind of $$ from racing that we hear about. One way is that I suspect their insurance costs are lower since they "piggyback" on the insurance that AMA membership has, which they require, at least at RR events. I can only guess that insurance is a significant part of the overall costs of events. JMHO.
  16. push rod

    push rod Well-Known Member

    General thoughts on the subject

    1. I was a member during the period that Stu refers to and I never rec'd a letter like he mentions. That's not to say that there may have been a targeted audience.

    2. Neither Rob nor Jeff are saints. When the defining event(s) occured they were not that far apart, but time and egos have made that gap virtually unbridgable. I beleive Rob's participation preceded Jeff's by 3 or 4 years. Rob was a big proponent and cheerleader for Vintage RR, and effective. I don't remember him being very dirt oriented(neither pro nor con?)

    3. If AHRMA were to go away, we'll all be worse off. If that happens, we'd better find a way to get more cooperation with VRRA, USCRA and Wera Vintage to maintain some degree of classes and venues. In fact, we ought to do that anyway.

    4. TO has disappeared from AHRMA for obvious reasons. Does anyone( in the know) know why Barber left?
  17. charles

    charles The Transporter

    Mongo! I'm surprised you would write this! Legal manueverings can drag things on for years, even decades...how long did the At&T Antitrust case
    take, my God, legions of attorneys made it their entire career! In some states,
    it takes about seven years to have a case set for trial...i've even read about
    plaintiffs, defendants, witnesses, and even companies dying off before the trial could come about...there are all sorts of things, some very legit, some
    questionable, to 'extend' a courtcase...the question would be: who would benefit most from a delay?

    I recommend shootouts to settle disputes, much cheaper. :)
  18. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    The current E.D. NY lawsuit is about 2-1/2 years old. However, there was at least one lawsuit between TO/Iannucci and AHRMA before that . . . I think it started in the mid-90's and finished with an appeal to the 11th Circuit around 1999/2000. Can-Am and I actually filed an amicus brief (friend of the court) in the 11th Circuit proceeding urging the 11th Circuit to order the parties to resolve their dispute on the race track in the proper manner for racers to determine who should reign. The 11th Circuit did not mention our suggestion in its ruling. :confused:

    It was about that time I first attempted to obtain more factual information about what AHRMA was/was not doing in its litigation efforts. I was essentially told by AHRMA's attorney, Ted Bendelow, to F**k off and die. I dropped it and went on racing, frustrated, but what the heck, it was clear AHRMA's controlling entities, i.e., Jeff Smith et al at that time, had no interest in hearing what members were concerned about, etc.

    Should I have done more/something different in the ensuing six years? Perhaps yes, but to what end? Would have, should have, could have . . . . For those critical of attempts to make AHRMA a better RACING ORGANIZATION, as opposed to a better litigating organization, I ask what they did in this regard, and what they think can and should be done now. After all, that is what this entire exercise is about, right? Finding a way to end the foolishness, and create and assure a future for vintage racing in as many forums and opportunities as possible.
  19. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Okay, so there was one suit that was settled in 99/00 - and Ianucci filed another suit a few years ago?
  20. Robin172

    Robin172 Well-Known Member



    About half way down the page.
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