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AHRMA Dissolution?

Discussion in 'WERA Vintage' started by 83BSA, Oct 30, 2006.

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  1. sparksfarmer

    sparksfarmer Member

    Speak directly into my microphone err, zipper...


    You have got to be kidding!

    AHRMA had a Matlock want-to-be with a recorder in his shorts show up at the meeting!:down: What the hell kind of Gomer is this one? "DA, Err, mister speaker, I was flipping the tape, could you repeat that for me?" Sounds like some TV show where the low-life crook tries to bate the mayor into saying something so he can later use it in court! This speed-racer must have been caught by the cops doing something pretty bad to stoop low enough to wear a wire to an AHRMA meeting! And it must me of such national security, that every law enforcement agency was involved! GW must have thought AHRMA was a gang, not a group!:beer:
    HEY MATLOCK! Who are you? I want to know so I don't say anything wrong around you? Now I got to get a patch for my leathers that asks,
    "Hey,Gomer. Are you a Narc?"
    If the member reads this list, please identify yourself. I'm sure everyone in AHRMA and WERA would all like to know what kind of class act you are. Come on secret-agent, who are you?
    This is just too funny. Who is the Gomer that would wear a wire to the town hall meeting? Did you get up and ask questions yourself, or did you have an accomplice? What was the purpose of taking a tape recorder to the meeting? Were you a newbie rider who thought they were going to give out lessons and there would be a quiz at the end of the class, or are you some creature who crawled out from under a rock and was trying to get the speakers to say something you could use against them? Hey, this sounds like a plot from some b-movie where the grifter is trying to blackmail the trustee, thinking that the trustee had a lot of money...
    Is that what this is, Are you trying to shake down AHRMA?

    WHO ARE YOU? :crackhead: (got to love the Who!)
    Why would you wear a wire?
    Were you alone or did you have accomplices?:stupid:

    Seriously, I am so bummed I did not make it to Barber. I would love to have seen this lowlife Gomer with his secret squirrel costume on.:mad: :stupid:

    Any info on this would be appreciated.

    To all those who keep beating the "Trustee's keep saying the lawyer says we can't answer that" and thinking that is BS. Get a life... Call an attorney, like one of those free legal aid clinics the attorneys usually have and ask them if during pending litigation, a trustee can be advised not to discuss a matter? Then post what the lawyer says on the list here for everyone to see!
  2. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    Why AHRMA was/is Fired By Its Attorneys

    In response to the question why the Westerman Ball Ederer Miller & Sharfstein LLP law firm want to no longer represent AHRMAS in the Team Obsolete litigation, Greg Zucker, AHRMA's attorney wrote Judge I. Leo Glasser as follows:

    ". . . my firm is seeking to withdraw based upon matters which solely concern my firm and AHRMA." October 20, 2006 letter; Document no. 243-1 in Case No. 1:01-cv-01574-ILG-RML, E.D. NY.

    AHRMA is a member owned and run organization. Why then will the Trustees and other AHRMA officials not tell us, the members? It just does not get any simpler than this.
  3. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    Letter to AHRMA Trustees - Sent Today


    Re: Concerns about AHRMA and Request for Information

    Dear :

    As a member of AHRMA since 1998, I have actively participated in various races, paid all fees, and paid all dues. I am Member no. 2403, Road Race no. 23, BOT no. 23x, Motocross no. 14b. I am not, nor have I ever been aligned with Robert Iannucci, Team Obsolete, Erik Green, or any of the plaintiffs in the Team Obsolete Litigation (as defined below).

    At the Barber event, on Sunday, October 22, 2006 at 11:00 A.M., a “town hall” meeting was convened at which the collected members were told the Trustees and other AHRMA officials present would answer any and all questions, regardless of how controversial or the nature of the topic (statements made by Will Harding). I asked several simple, direct questions, the answers to which I, and other AHRMA members, believe we are entitled to receive. Accordingly, you may understand why it came as a distinct shock to me when I was told by Dave Janiec (ostensibly on behalf of AHRMA and the collected Trustees and officials) that my reasonable and appropriate questions
    would not be answered “on advice of counsel.” Those questions were:

    1. How much money has AHRMA spent in its litigations with Team Obsolete and Robert Iannucci?
    2. What is the basis of AHRMA’s current-soon-to-be-former counsel in the E.D. New York litigation (Case No. 1:01-CV-01574-ILG-RML, hereinafter the “Team Obsolete Litigation”) motion to withdraw from representing AHRMA in that matter?

    Mr. Janiec confirmed at that time that he knew the answers to both questions, but he refused to provide that information, or frankly any other information relating to the Team Obsolete Litigation. Because Mr. Janiec, and the other collected AHRMA Trustees and officials refused to answer any questions relating to the Team Obsolete Litigation, the following additional crucial question remains unanswered:

    1. Who is representing AHRMA’s interests vis-à-vis the pending motion by AHRMA’s counsel to withdraw?
    2. How is AHRMA funding the Team Obsolete Litigation?
    3. What are AHRMA’s plans to resolve, continue to fund or otherwise handle the Team Obsolete Litigation?

    It is my understanding that a portion of the Team Obsolete Litigation was funded by AHRMA’s now-defunct insurer, Reliance Insurance Company. Following Reliance’s bankruptcy, AHRMA received a total of $300,000 from the State of Wisconsin in fulfillment of Reliance’s insurance obligations to AHRMA, and AHRMA knew of that limitation on the amount of insurance funds it would receive with respect to the Team Obsolete Litigation sometime in 2001 or 2002 (the exact date is unclear, once again, because AHRMA officials refuse to provide the membership with this information). AHRMA never told its members that it would receive only $300,000 from its $3 million Reliance insurance policy, and it never provided its members with a budget or projection of the costs of conducting the Team Obsolete Litigation. Accordingly, crucial facts relating to the conduct of the Team Obsolete Litigation were willfully and intentionally withheld from the membership. That policy of deception by intentional failure to disclose and advise continues today.

    AHRMA’s members are entitled to know what the status of the Team Obsolete Litigation, and how AHRMA plans to pursue that litigation without destroying the organization. It appears that AHRMA’s resources have been completely depleted by the Team Obsolete Litigation (again, the members don’t know because the facts have been withheld from them). If this is the situation, then there is real cause for concern about the ability of the AHRMA Trustees and other officials to competently and appropriately conduct AHRMA’s affairs and represent the members’ best interests. Those concerns can arguably be assuaged by AHRMA candidly and immediately making crucial and relevant information previously withheld from its members available to those members. That disclosure of information will ultimately occur – it is simply a matter of when and how such disclosure will occur. Accordingly, it is a function of how irresponsible and wasteful the representatives of AHRMA want to be in that process.

    One suspects there has been, and exists today, a great deal of angst and concern among the Trustees and other AHRMA representatives on these issues. There should be – it appears that the Trustees and other AHRMA representatives have failed to act reasonably. However, the Trustees can reverse course and reinstall the membership’s faith by immediately providing accurate and meaningful communication on these issues to the members. Ignoring this and just hoping it will go away will be a mistake. The members are quite serious and they want answers. And they will get them – one way or another. Please do not make the disclosure of information to which the members are entitled any more costly or difficult. Take this opportunity to correct AHRMA’s pattern of obfuscation and nondisclosure; “Trust us” simply won’t work any longer.

    In the event you believe some or all of the information requested below is confidential or proprietary information, I am willing to consider entering into an appropriate confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement which would appropriately protect AHRMA’s, and its members, best interests. However, none has been offered or suggested by AHRMA to date. Please provide written responses to the following questions:

    1. Who is representing and advising AHRMA with respect to the pending motion to withdraw filed by Westerman Ball Ederer Miller & Sharfstein LLP (“Westerman Ball”) in the Team Obsolete Litigation?
    2. What is the basis of Westerman Ball’s motion to withdraw?
    3. What is AHRMA’s current budget and projection for costs, fees and expenses associated with the Team Obsolete Litigation?
    4. Please provide a detailed accounting of AHRMA’s finances beginning in January 2002 through and including the present.
    5. Please provide a detailed accounting of contributions to and disbursements from AHRMA’s Benevolent Fund beginning in January 2002 through and including the present. At a minimum the accounting should disclose the date, amount and source of all contributions or deposits to the Benevolent Fund, and the date, amount and purpose of all withdrawals or disbursements from the Benevolent Fund.
    6. What offers of settlement or compromise were received from any plaintiff in the Team Obsolete Litigation and when was each such offer made or received by AHRMA or its representatives?
    7. What offers of settlement or compromise were made by AHRMA to any plaintiff in the Team Obsolete Litigation, and when was each such offer made?

    I look forward to your prompt, complete reply.

    Thank you,

    David A. Rutherford
  4. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    Dave - Good letter, but I would advise the Trustees (or Iannucci) to be very circumspect with regard to disclosing litigation plans, strategy and settlement demands/offers.

    Did you forward a copy to RRW?
  5. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    Not yet, but I think Mr. Ulrich might be interested in what is brewing.

    On the litigation front, your point is well taken. But, any settlement offer made to TO can't be confidential or proprietary info - it was disclosed to the other side. Certainly the members have a right to know that. Likewise with settlement offers received from TO, unless such offers were expressly made with a confidentiality caveat.

    Because this is a public forum, and I do not want to give unthinking folks any ideas, please feel free to PM me or email me at work: [email protected]. Also, a "courtesy copy" was mailed to Mr. Bendelow as General Counsel for AHRMA.

    Thanks for the kind words.
  6. limy_1

    limy_1 Crash Starter

    I think it is time now to sit back and wait.
    That was a hard hitting letter but well deserved.
  7. OldSwartout

    OldSwartout Well-Known Member

    That's a good letter, with many good questions that should be answered. However, there are several questions pertaining to AHRMA finances and relationships with law firms that I certainly hope that we don't have anyone on the board that is foolish enough to answer while litigation is going on. I also am surprised that someone would be foolish enough to even ask them to disclose that information.

    The benevolent fund has always been and remains a fund that is confidential in disbursements. I'm certain you aren't really asking AHRMA to disclose individual donors and recipients as seems to be implied, are you? I think that some of those recipients might be pretty unhappy if their privacy was violated and could potentially involve AHRMA in more lawsuits.

  8. Yamaha Fan

    Yamaha Fan Well-Known Member

    For those that don't see the focus of the question it could be honed a bit..

    Has any of moneys from the Benevolent fund been used to pay legal fees associated with ANY of the TO/AHRMA litigation? is so how much?

    This should sufficiently resolve the question... without exposing details of any appropriate uses of the fund...
  9. push rod

    push rod Well-Known Member


    First, the unwillingness to disclose information under the screen of " can't discuss these as they're related to an ongoing litigation" is fine except that do we wait another 6 years until it's litigated...actually, I doubt the fund in AHRMA would support it. So in a cloud of secrecy, there's the potential that AHRMA disappears without knowledge as to why.

    Second, I would imagine that an offer to Rob for reinstatement of membership and priveleges would have saved untold $100Ks...if made 4 or 5 years ago.

    All for use of the name of a class that garnered all of 7 entries at Daytona this year....wow, really worth it....
  10. OldSwartout

    OldSwartout Well-Known Member

    Benevolent Fund

    That's a much better question, but definitely NOT what 83BSA said.
  11. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    Old Swartout -
    Having declared me to be a fool in a public forum, please explain in more detail the following:

    "However, there are several questions pertaining to AHRMA finances and relationships with law firms that I certainly hope that we don't have anyone on the board that is foolish enough to answer while litigation is going on. I also am surprised that someone would be foolish enough to even ask them to disclose that information."

    Exactly what questions are those to which you refer?

    Why would it be "foolish" to answer those questions?

    What litigation experience do you have that makes you so knowledgable in this particular area?

    Thank you.
  12. sparksfarmer

    sparksfarmer Member

    Was secret squirrel next to you with a tape recorder?

    Hi All,

    I appreciate that the members may feel they have a right to know everything that is going on, But, you don't! Can't anyone get it accross to you? We have a representative body who takes care of the club. They are the trustee's. They are elected because members vote for them, because they trust these people to make good decisions. If you do not believe the lawyer told them not to discuss it. Ask them to print a note from the attorney, in the next Vintage Views....

    Do not jump on the recall, or class action lawsuit, that Team T.O. is trying to push for on his website... Do not blame the trustees for doing what they were told to do by the attorney. It is for the benefit of AHRMA as a whole that they do not discuss a bunch of stuff... I realize it can be frustrating, but the trustee's first obligation is to the club, not the members...

    Like at Barber.. If someone is low enough to show up with a tape recorder conceled in their leathers and is trying to bait them into saying something they can sue the club for. Can you imagine if the clown was a part of the TO lawsuit. The trustees are not the bad guys in this, they are not suing the club, TO is... To everyone who keeps saying that they want to let Rob back in, Do you feel that way cause you like Rob, or because your afraid that he is costing us too much money? What about the next guy who you want to invite not to come back? Are you going to let that person back in, or are you going to just eliminate the part in the bylaws which state that membership can be revoked? Where does it end?
    It is easy to get mad because some guy is suing the club and it is easy to blame our trustees, but it is not their fault. Blame TO. Blame the guy who did not respect AHRMA's property in the form of the BEARS trademark. He brought that on himself. From their, it all may have gone south, but it was not the trustees fault that he is sue happy... Why do you think TO keeps the flames burning brightly, by stirring the pot? If he cared about the club, he wouldn't be suing it. If he wanted to inform the members, he would post his 68 page complaint. (I haven't seen it yet form him so how much does he really care?)

    Lets give the Trustee's the respect they deserve!

  13. sparksfarmer

    sparksfarmer Member

    Hey 83BSA,

    Since your an attorney, how about some free advice... Your litigating a messy case such as ours and a bunch of members keep bugging the trustees of the group to tell all. What do you do? Do you tell them that since your in litigation, it is best just not to discuss it, or do you tell them to talk all they want? What is your advice?
    Keep in mind that TO may be sending in people with wires to try to catch your trustees if the slip up and let any cats out of the bag.

    Please let us know what your opinion is. Is it best to just not answer anything related to the case or not? What is the Best information you can give the trustee's?

  14. Andy 338

    Andy 338 Member

    83BSA, I don't think you need any litagation experience to know that so far it has only been the attorneys that have benefited from this lawsuit and when it has ended it will still be only the attorneys that have benefited.

  15. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    Andy - you understand:up:
  16. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    The simple questions like "How much has this cost so far?" and "Where is the money for the next 24 months of litigation going ot come from?" should be answered.

    Questions about litigation strategy and settlement strategy should be kept confidential. But there is also a rather large grey area. . .
  17. John29

    John29 Road racing since 1973

  18. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    AHRMA's only affirmative claim is for attorney's fees.

    One does things to maximize its claim.

    In order to maximize its claim, AHRMA increases its attorneys fees.

    AHRMA's attorneys benefit from AHRMA spending more money on litigation.

    Hmmmm . . . .
  19. WERA33

    WERA33 Well-Known Member

    i fully agree with david(BSA83). this continues to drain resources of ahrma and the patience of the membership. if the members will keep the pressure on maybe we wont have to wait years for the litigation to come to an end or see a bankrupt ahrma.

    karl.......david foolish? hmmm ill assume you have never met him. a class act who like many ahrma members has had enough. i think we're fortunate to have someone with his expertise willing to ask these questions. also good of rodger to chime in also.
  20. charles

    charles The Transporter

    Fer sure...someday someone will write all about this, it'll make history.
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