A serious question for the assembled cast…

Yeah, I know. Last thing in the world you assholes expect from me is to be posting something that’s not snarky…

So the children returned last night from an extended period with a certain other person who shall remain nameless (I’ll refer to this person as VS). Before they even got home the taller of the two was exhibiting a significant setback in her mental health, and last night into this morning was the worst interpersonal behavior between them that I’ve seen in quite some time.

Both kids spent some quality 1:1 time with dear ol’ dad, and I did my best to tunnel into their behaviors to see what was triggering this.

What I found wasn’t shocking, when talking to the tall one. She’s incredibly open and trusting with me to help unburden herself from the stresses and anxieties she carries.

What I found wasn’t shocking, when talking to the short one, either, but I was floored that she was so blatantly played as a pawn, and articulated so well every manipulative maladjusted personality trait possessed by VS while being totally oblivious that VS was “securing allies” to counter the tall one’s “defiance”.

So…now for my question. Has anyone here ever coparented with a covert narcissist, how did you find successes in insulating from and repairing damage caused by the narc to the children, and do you have any resources you can point me at?

I’ve spent countless hours reading and analyzing, have done my level best to instill respect, individuality and responsibility into these creatures, and am trying to guide them into independence with appropriate opportunities to make decisions, suffer consequences and feel safe and confident in asserting their wants and needs. After hearing how deep the mindfuckery is with the short one, and with the effort and attention that keeping the tall one on track takes, getting some outside counsel to hopefully counter any confirmation bias from friends who have seen this from the beginning and even predicted a number of things, would definitely be appreciated.

PM is fine if you don’t want to post publicly, and I know a few of you have reached out to me and shared experiences and advice, and your help is truly appreciated.

Thanks again, and I promise not to stop tarding up the other threads.

 

I don’t have any guidance… but send you all the positivity and well wishes I have man. Hug them tight, and good luck.

 

I just filed for custody of my 15 year old son yesterday. After 4 years of watching him struggle I've had enough. He's a shell of the happy go lucky kid he used to be. Of course its all my fault that he is this way because when he asked if he could live with me 4 years ago I gave him hope and said we could look into it ... Never mind his grades have steadily declined, he has no social circle, no best friend, just 5 - 1/2 brothers and sisters to take care of while his mom and step dad fight so bad he's had to intervene ... but it's my fault. They're in the middle of a divorce now and he just wants out of there, not to mention he just wants his DAD! I feel so much better now that it's filed ... I'll be keeping an eye on this thread for sure. Good luck Egg, there are a lot of us out here for support.

 

Thanks.

Here in the communist utopia of Minneshitholia, children can be “heard” starting at age 14 and at age 16, barring some serious threat to their health and well-being, what they want, the court grants.

Sadly, also here, the narcs get away with bald-faced lying, and garner all the sympathy of the “decision makers” against the best interests of the children and the mountains of evidence they’re presented. It’s fucking disgusting.

And it’s almost like fomenting conflict and ensuring psychologically damaged children is their mission.

 

Yeah, that's why I waited so long to do this. Indiana is about the same on age allowances. I hope to God they listen to him and what he's gone through though. He's such a good kid, he didn't deserve any of this. She just wants the control, it's all about how it looks on her and how she can control him, rather than acknowledge that he's struggling and try to find a way to help him.

 

my daughters story would be too long to post here...but she grew up dealing with A LOT! most of it my side of the family was unaware of. i moved to the states, and shortly after she and her mom moved back to where i am from. living in the states made things hard, i flew home 3x a year to see her, and we always told her she was welcome to move with me to the states or in with my mom at home. she always decided to stay - (she didnt want to leave her little brothers and sister - she was basically taking care of them). well when she was 15, she had enough - she would always stay with me when i was home for weeks at a time. this time she said she wanted to move in with my mom and not go back. we immediately contacted a lawyer, police etc and anticipated her every move ahead of time.

when mom called and said she wanted her home, we simply said no, shes not going. she threatened police etc...but we already knew they were not going to do anything (they told us they will not forcibly remove the child against their will. she literally never went back.

as the years went on, she became more and more aware of how toxic her mom was...and made the decision to simply cut her out of her life completely. its been years now - she has her own kids etc. she also shared more of what went on in that house with us...it was NOT good! she has a great loving family, both and educated successful professionals - she is the first on that side of the family to go to university and break the chain. I am very proud!

hopefully in time your kids will become more aware and take steps to limit their exposure to the toxicity.

 

Good on her. I was 35 before I realized that I could do that.

 

That’s exactly what I’m trying to avoid.

Helping these girls develop healthy and respectful boundaries with EVERYONE, not just VS and not just me.

 

Thank you for sharing. I really do appreciate everyone’s input.

 

Humans are garbage.

Good luck to you sir

 

Egg, I want to say this but it may not apply at all.

In your son and daughters future if they dont burn bridges, there is a chance that they will become real friends and a lifelong bond will develop that will help them through their lives. I grew up with an older brother and sister. They thought I was a stupid little puke (correctly) and I thought they were jerks. It never got bad enough to burn bridges and even as young adults we got along. Telling your kids "you should love your sister or brother" right after they have offended each other doesn't work but saying "O heck honey your sibling will hopefully be a good connection long after me and you mom are gone" may make we stupid humans think about the big picture.

 

Sad, and I had a similar experience between two brothers.

One clearly seemed naturally like me, the other his VS. So vs was always in her mini`s ear.

I just stayed firm in my conservative beliefs and was firm with the way we lived; and as they grew, the mini saw for himself how much better that life is.

He now loves his life and is a successful with his kids and family.

Because, as you know, it makes sense.

SO I would keep the faith, and spend good time with both. Hang with like people to reinforce the positives of it.

Choose activities that present how well it works, and talk about it.

I think time is on your side.

 

My kids are 13 twins & 15. I wont even begin to label the ex . My path has been to remain silent. Support my kids and allow them to eventually see their (both) parents' flaws. They will see the truth.

 

I can only offer you the use of a freezer and a wood chipper,

 

My only suggestion, is one that may not be possible. But, it worked for me, with two kids with two different Moms.

Develop some sort of relationship with the ex that’s not built on hating on each other 24/7/365. A little one on one talk(s). Include them in decisions made about the kids. Try your best to play nice even if you want to do otherwise. My second child's Mom was and still is a bit of a narcissist, but we have worked past the hostility there once was. It was mainly me being calm about the stupid that I saw. You cannot deal with narcissistic personalities in attack mode. They’ll beat you if you try. You need to slowly lead them to where you need them to be. That takes time and effort, and you’ll have to decide if it’s worth it. I did for the kids mental well being. Good luck.

 

My buddy went through this with his daughter and crazy ex. This was his approach once he won full custody of his daughter and she eventually figured out her mother is batshit crazy on her own. She's really tight with Dad and stepmom. Barely sees her mom.
Hope everything works out for you Egg.

 

You want it to be one way, but it's the other way.

 

Thank you.

Time is on my side, as the last five years have shown. Unfortunately as the young one has achieved cognizance, she is now being played in a golden child/scapegoat game, and the older one has clearly seen VS for what she is.

What I’m *hoping* to avoid is a repeat of the last five years of damage-repair-damage-repair-damage-repair every time the children shuffle between their loving home and Casa Scheissehole.

I’m prepared for the worst, though. I got another ten years in me to keep up the battle.

 

It’s not in my nature to remain silent.

I may not be able to make a liar tell the truth, but she damn sure is going to have her lies exposed and placed in the sun to disinfect.

 

As delightful as that may sound, the lessons my children are getting in recognizing/dealing with a pathological liar and covert narc will definitely serve them well as adults.