Mid ohio vintage days

Well if what a previous poster said is true, the tower couldn't have known the severity if the corner workers weren't even looking down the track at the turn the issues were happening at. I'm not real sure what a normal protocol is but I always thought they had enough discretion to throw what ever flag they wanted while communicating type and severity of any issues to the tower for further guidance. As a corner worker you see a smoking/leaking bike go by, maybe you display the oil flag. If you see a group of 3 riders go down together in conjunction with that and in an area that has tight run off, THROW THE RED FLAG. Deal with the consequences if people say after that you shouldn't have. Safety is always a good excuse to fall back on and hard to argue with.

 

"Sorry, that rider needs his ass kicked. ANYONE with a brain and has done much track riding should know get the F off the track now when dropping fluids. Smoke like that is OIL. WTF
And yes every corner worker there wanted a rule change if AMA comes back, they will call the flags all of them or those present said they would not volunteer.
Watching riders wreck like that pissed them off when it was needless."

Agreed 100%. I was one of those who went down. Reaction time sucked. I got my bike out of harms way, saw the YOOG oil slick, saw no oil flags, no one at the apex directing oncoming
bikes OFF Line. I'm gutted to hear about Mike's femur. Totally preventable, that's what makes me sick.

 

Displaying it or waving it or waving it so that it cracks. There is a big difference in being able to see it and understanding the severity when you are racing. I want my corner worker to take control of the situation fast. No good being tentative and unsure of yourself as a corner worker. I get the feeling that the guy waving the checkered flags had more heart in it than the local corner workers in this situation.

That turn (7) is actually perfect for this situation. Take a step left out of your bunker behind the rail on the inside and exit of 7 with both the oil and red and wave them like you mean it as you stand right next to the track. The flaggers are still plenty safe there and you would be very noticeable in that location. If I see that then look down the hill at 3 (or more) downed bikes I'm coming to a damn near stop to go through 8.

 

Good point. Oil flag was Displayed. Not waving, not enthusiastic. Nobody seemed to take notice, nobody slowed down for the oil flag. Red flag was enthusiastically waved, but riders still weren't slowing sufficiently. Corner workers did eventually get out on track and wave people down, but the last guy wrecked even after that. He was moving at a slow pace. Even after that, they didn't stop riders.

I don't want to take too much away from the corner workers. They've always been great, and it's not like they're making the big bucks out there... My biggest beef is just that they continued to let riders go through this area, littered with wrecked bikes and riders. Should have stopped them, and redirected around the oil, or through the grass.

 

Nope.

 

Care to explain your comment? I was watching - they had the flag up less than 5 seconds after the leaker went through. Definitely had it up before anyone crashed.

 

This.

 

I've only corner worked mini events, but I've also sat around a bon fire with PIRC's (former?) track manager. PIRC doesn't even allow corner workers to say the word "red" over the radio. Not to describe a bike, not to describe leathers, not to ask if the flag should be thrown. They display yellow and describe the situation to the tower. The tower is the only entity authorized to call for a red flag. Likewise when I have worked mini races, we are always told to report "rider down. conscious. moving off track." or "rider down. pinned under bike." etc. As a corner worker, I've never been allowed to choose to display a red flag without being told to. Other flags were fair game. I do not know that Mid-Ohio follows the same protocol, but it wouldn't surprise me.

As for corner workers stopping traffic, I agree that they can run up track (as long as they're remaining off track and in a safe place) and wave the flag enthusiastically, but this notion of stopping traffic seems like nonsense to me. Every riders' meeting I have ever attended has included instructions to NEVER stop on the track. I would ride (slowly, with my hand up) right past a corner worker displaying a red flag, and proceed back to hot pit, because that is what I've always been instructed to do.

 

Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean the flag wasn't there. Debris flag was up on the inside of turn 8, before anyone crashed. Again, not waving, not enthusiastic, probably easy to miss.

 

You never stop on a hot track, period. The corner workers have absolutely no way to convey to the riders that they want them to stop on track.

 

No argument that waving draws more attention, but this is an argument against having the corner worker move up track to provide earlier warning. If riders are looking for corner stations, and it's been vacated, there's greater potential they don't see anything...

 

I was second overall in the race. I came through the scene full speed. I saw no flags. I saw the oil and put my hand up. Still can't believe I went through that mess and did not crash.

 

You could be right but I really really dont think it was, if so there should have been one before the the actual pile of bikes anyways. I will retract all previous statements, let you give me a wet willy, and buy you a beer if proven wrong. I wont Gapman that either.

 

Likewise. This is all from memory - we all know how that works.

Point taken. I don't know what the answer is, but you can't just allow riders to plow through an oil field. More could have been done to slow them down, and direct them safely around the problem, at a walking pace.

 

You can see the flag in this screenshot. Inside, above the red inside fence. This is after a few were down, but it was there before.

 

I hear ya. I survived the initial blast of oil in 6th gear on the back straight and THEN a second time through the war zone. I still hadn't processed what was going on until I got back to hot pit.

Personally, I saw debris flag at the kink, and didn't see reds until T8 (that's my video)... a full lap after the incident. I don't know what went wrong or whatever, I'm still too new at this to make a remotely accurate deconstruction of the situation. But I know this much, if I have any inkling whatsoever I am compromising the surface and compromising you guys' safety, I'm getting the hell off the track.

I have to trust every one of you with my life, and I'm sure as hell not betraying your trust either. I know the 59 - albeit not very well - and I am confident he never intended any of this to happen. That said, he makes me nervous now. It's clear that there are people out there who will make dangerous decisions under pressure and people will get hurt because of it. I'm glad it wasn't worse than it was, but I'm a little agitated that it happened at all... and I feel terrible for Mike who's got a real situation to deal with now. Hopefully *something* gets learned from this. I know I definitely took something away from it and this has reinforced exactly what needs to happen whenever I might suspect there's a mechanical issue with my bike.

 

I stand corrected after finding another video of the mess, I will brace for my atomic wet willy.

 

Yeeeaaaaaahhhh. That's what I'm talking about with visibility. Corner worker thinks they are displaying it perfectly clear and you can barely distinguish it in a still frame let alone at speed. Also this is after many bikes are down. Where is the waving yellow? I can't speak for everyone and not quite sure in my mind after the fact but my eyes would also be on that corner worker much sooner than on that screen shot making it even harder/farther to see and then back on the corner or surroundings by the time I was at that point on the track. If you really want to be noticed and make sure racers know to significantly slow down. That person should be outside of that post on the edge of the track exiting T7 (from below map) displaying it open but moving it along with a cracking yellow flag waving out over the track. Maybe they aren't allowed to throw the red, but then use every other flag you have to do what you think is best.

Just for reference I prefer this corner numbering so we are on the same page

 

That is a great question. You can see in Scott's video there is a standing debris flag in T7 (same as screen shot above), but there were already 3 bikes in a pile 10 seconds ahead of him... yet no waving yellow. Odd indeed.

 

Oh and I'm still wondering what the thought process and radio communications were for the incident in T3 of race 4 Sunday. I saw the aftermath and thought 2 bikes got together. I thought I heard after that the one bike that was in the middle of the line of T3 got hit later and caused the bike on the outside of T3. If that is the case it's the same damn thing as this. Better flagging may have eliminated the 2nd accident. I haven't confirmed but I thought there was an injury being attended to on the grass inside the keyhole from this. Hope I am wrong or it was not bad.