will they burn baltimore?

Hell, the reasonable thing to do in all industries is to be prepared for new laws, regulations and policies before the day they go into effect.

 

That is why there is a reasonable standard. No one else in the state has a seat belt policy. Seat belt policy is in effect for two days, laws don't just go into effect immediately. It is UNREASONABLE to institute a new policy without giving a reasonable chance to disseminate the information

Also, there is the question of equipment. Was the van that Gray rode in equipped with seat belts? Are all the vans equipped with seatbelts? How can you have a policy that would then be untenable?

 

Not yet, but we can still hope.

 

Does anyone care?

 

What was your answer when I said that this was the only relevant fact?

 

He who crams the first corncob. . .

 

Yeah, I think he was taken aback by my ability to lower the debate to his level.

 

Probably the same as it is now it is a relevant fact, but not the only one...

 

Yawn.....

 

We are focusing much on what is reasonable with respect to laws.

What reasonable expectation is there that all detainees or persons put in back of transport will quietly comply with seatbelt laws.

And, if the seatbelt law does exist or is in place what reasonable expecation should an officer be held to with repect to clicking a detaineee/suspect in?

Realistically, I don't think this is reasonable expectation.

 

I don't think that there is a huge gap in opinions here. I think we all are of the opinion that the police are at fault and this is clearly a wrongful death. I personally don't see this as the fault of the officers involved, rather it is a SYSTEMIC problem. I think that there is a huge failure in training with regards to the seat belt policy. I see a huge failure in keeping vehicles in service which do not meet the policy on seat belts. I see a huge failure in placing prisoners in such a confined space that it puts officers and prisoners in danger. I see a huge failure in not having cameras in the back of these vans etc. but I see them as departmental failures, not rouge cops who've gone off the reservation. The department let the officers down and let their citizens down. Period.

 

I agree with most of this, but who makes up the department?
It's all cops. If there are safety problems, then they are the ones most aware of them. They certainly go to bat for themselves as concerns safety problems, as well as benefits, pay, working conditions, etc.
Why can we not expect them to do things the smart, responsible way?
You've transferred the responsibility to a faceless entity, and thus away from anyone personally.
I predict they will find a way to do the impossible and use seatbelts on everyone after it costs the taxpayers enough money and the cops enough blowback.

 

Roger, I'm glad you recognize Papa needs help in our debate because he's floundering so badly I'm starting to feel guilty about it, but, if you really want to help him, then you need to address the core issue. I tried doing that, but it appears his anal discomfort got the best of him and he stopped listening. I hope you have better luck. I'm here to help, Papa. Please, don't push me away.

 

So, Rob, you don't think there's any chance that the police gave him an intentional "rough ride," or whatever they call it in Baltimore?


BR, what Papa is saying makes perfect sense to those who dont idolize police.

 

What? You and Papa are in complete agreement again?

There is no way it can get better than this.

 

Most people who aren't blindly in love with the police are in agreement.

 

It's not faceless, it is the leadership; the mayor, city council and the Chief of Police. They are the ones who set policy, decide how and when budgets are spent and how officers are trained. I don't think it is unreasonable to say "okay, we are changing our paddy wagon policy. We need to make sure that all our vehicles are retrofitted for compliance, all of the officers who are assigned to those vehicles should read and acknowledge the new policy before being released the keys at the motor pool." I think that is very reasonable when you are going from a long standing policy which does not require seat belts to one which does.

 

Let's hope that observation is more accurate than the last one you made.