Why link wheelie control with traction control?

This is now, from what I've read, being put into practice by both Honda and Suzuki on their newest literbikes.

What is the reason for this? Is it cost savings? Are they using the same source for electronics? I know it's not popular in our circles, so what are the reasons for these two manufacturers to be implementing it?

 

Because racing/trackday types represent roughly none of their actual consumer base, who would just get more confused with extra settings.

 

Because a smart Asian said it works.

 

Probably because it's simpler? I don't see this as a bad thing necessarily. Chances are if I want to crank up the TC, I'd also want to crank up wheelie control as well. My question is, since all of these have launch control now, is it possible to turn off TC/wheelie control while using launch control? I would think wheelie control is or should be linked to the launch control. Pretty sure that's how it is on most systems from other manufacturers.

 

Ditch that control and use your right hand for all........

 

The KTM SuperDuke 1290 has it all integrated, or at least up till the new 2017 version.

I don't like it particularly. I ride 90% of the time with the electronics off, mainly because it's fun in the mountains to come out of a turn with the front wheel hovering a foot or two in the air, plus when the road drops down and you are mid flight, it comes down pretty abruptly.

not a big fan of it being integrated, but I would guess it's easier to figure out the algorithms with both wheels going the same speed and not trying to figure out when the front end is in the air vs. the rear wheel spinning up on corner exit.

 

They can integrate all the functions into one control unit.
Honda is able to have one control unit operate antilock brakes, traction control and stability assist in their cars. The unit monitors wheel rotation, so they came up with a way for the system to detect low tire pressure, eliminating the pressure sensors inside the tires.

 

My 2011 zx10 had the wheelie control and TC linked. It was not great.

 

Am I the only one that would like less cost and no electronic whiz bang crap? If you need tc and wc on a street bike you need less power. Full stop.

 

For street yes, but they sure come in handy for racing. And yes I know 99% of these bikes won't ever be raced, manufacturers still throw as much stuff as they can at it for WSBK homologation. Ever since they got stricter rules for modifications it meant that manufacturers had to make better performing bikes out the factory. There are a lot of things they can't modify anymore in WSBK or STK1000, but if the bikes come stock with it, it's not a problem. I agree the costs are getting a bit out of hand. They are increasing at a faster rate than my salary is

 

That would be your *left* hand....

 

Since there's an imu it's stupid not to take advantage of its full potential. honda simplified all its electronics (no more "rebound damping" etc) and integrated wc into tc for the same reason,apparently.

 

I have also read where people from both of their organizations have said they have plans to change it with future updates. One Suzuki rep even went as far as to say he feels it was a mistake and it shouldn't be like that (if I can find where I read that, I will link it here).

Having ridden several different bikes with electronic aids, I do not feel they should be linked. Every track has corners with varying exit speeds, elevation changes etc. There are times when you want more WC or more TC, but not necessarily both. I can't remember a time when I intentionally increased and/or decreased them both at the same time, not even on the 1299S.

 

Yes - LC included WC. However, LC disables the "normal" WC and TC and has its own algorithms/settings for WC/TC for launching situations.

Then once you reach a certain speed, or click into 2nd gear, it disables the LC and its associated WC/TC settings, and returns to the normal WC/TC settings that you had originally entered.

 

For a street bike I can see the reasoning if you look at the way 95% are ridden. It's just an easier method of preventing Darwinism to do what it's meant to do.

 

Modern 1000 hp numbers would render motorcycles unrideable to the vast majority of the motorcycle buying public (whether they realize it or not) without all the rider aids. Hell, most "experienced" track day riders and racers would have their hands full without the rider aids.

 

I don't know specifics, but with the top street bikes making right at 190-200HP, isn't that more than the old 2 stroke 500's made in the golden age of Schwantz, Rainey, Roberts, Lawson, Doohan, Gardner and Spencer?

 

Im not too proud to admit that I use the Wheelie Control on the 1299S. Weighing 353lbs while putting 202hp and 105ft/lbs to the rear wheel, it is damn near impossible to ride at race pace without it. I have tried it several times, and I can ride without it, but I am much faster with it. I find myself either constantly having to short-shift, or drag the rear brake, or give less/roll out of the throttle. It can/will wheelie at any speed, in any gear, at damn near any RPM (it makes 90ft/lbs as far down at 5000RPM). It even wants to wheelie doing 4th gear corner exits at 100mph.

Personally, I don't buy into the whole "be a man and only use your right wrist" bullshit. My goal is win and/or get around the track as fast as I can. If that means using WC, or a Quickshifter, so be it. I would rather stand on the podium having utilized modern electronics, than finish 5th without them just so I could say I rode the bike "old school".

I have raced bikes with no electronics, including Liter bikes. I have raced bikes with no QS, no Slipper Clutch, etc. It isn't that I can't ride without the rider aids, it is more of a "why should I?" thing. If there is something available that can help me get around the track faster and/or safer, then why not take advantage of it?

It is funny when people say that stuff isn't "needed" or is unnecessary, or they can go just as fast without it. If that is the case, they either are on a weaker bike, or aren't pushing very hard, or simply aren't going very fast to begin with. Hell, I remember last year a Moto2 rider qualified on the front row, then lap after lap kept dropping back. He finally dropped out of the top 20 and just pitted because he was 2-3 seconds off pace. The issue was that his Quickshifter stopped working. Even the best riders in the World either rely on, or are faster with modern electronics.

 

Sadly enough, that is exactly right.

Sometimes we (I am guilty of it often) forget that "we" only make up a small % of the people that will buy these bikes.

With that being said, if they are going through the trouble and effort of making specific race homologation specials, then I think those bikes should be more customizable, have more options etc.

 

Because the fart can civic types need to be able to tell you about all the stuff their bike has while you look at his center worn tire.


If it brings costs down then I'm all for it. One model that's reasonable to sell to the general public. The others (Sp2 and all the RRRRRR ) that's focused on the track guys.

Honestly I think they are getting this backwards. Put all the electric goodies in one ECU, lower HP and load it up with fake carbon fiber. Keep the price low. It looks the part and they can still talk about all the electric gizmos they never use. Looking the part is what sells bikes.