While shopping for a used SV, guys who race CCS and have bikes that are not legal for wera make some sort of comment. Having raced both on a limited basis, I fail to see much of a difference and have seen things at CCS events that I'd prefer not to see on a track. CCS also doesn't seem to require as much saftey wire. Beyond that, what's all the fuss or is just a good old fashioned rivalry?
I think preparing your bike to WERA standards would cover you for both. As I recall, the only thing I have to add to make my CCS bike legal for WERA is to wire my headers. I still don't really understand what good it does, given that the only place it would fall is into my belly pan anyway. But oh well. I have noticed, though, that the CCS tech inspectors at Summit Point are a whole lot more accomodating and trusting than the LRRS people at Loudon. (e.g. "No need to take the belly pan off: you got safety wire on your drain plug? yes? ok, good to go.")
CCS racers tend to be less attractive physically, and their IQ tends to fall on the left-hand side of the Bell curve.
I raced with CCS once, a couple of years ago when the WERA race at Atlanta Motor Speedway was cancelled. I wore my WERA T-Shirt and got a little grief over it but overall the people were very nice and professional. One thing I like about racing primarily with one organization is that you get to know the people you are racing with. When that "dude on a gix" becomes Joe Smoe that I know from Texas or Indiana I take greater care when racing around him, and I know his habits and riding style so it makes it that much safer. And if we do happen to slap a little glass I know it's nothing personal (it's just Al Goodwin , the big bully on the small bike).
There are pluses and minuses both ways I guess. For guys running LW bikes CCS's class structure is a little better, you'll usually have one more race each weekend in which you'll be at least semi-competitive. For the SV in WERA there are 2 "natural" classes, LW Twins and D-Super. CCS has 3, LWSS, LWSB, and HW Sportsman. I race with both groups, and like them both just fine.
CCS does not require alternators or wiring harness in SS class I know so if you buy a CCS class bike be sure to get all the take-off parts to be able to be able to reinstall. But there isn't a WERA SS class for SV so any mod to a SV for CCS would be WERA SB legal right? OH Lt twins is SS so yeah you would need alt, wiring harness, etc.
sure, "no need to take your belly pan off to 'see' the safety wire" but 'god forbid' you try to get through tech with a number that's slightly 'off center', i know i feel safe now...
In D Super we require the SV to be Superstock legal. In LW Twins there are no restriction other than displacement for the SV. Personally I like WERA but then again, I'm slightly biased. I am curious - what exactly is HW Sportsman? Is it similar to HW Twins or is it smaller bikes?
You mean that bright green one over your leathers, right? Seriously I prefer to race with WERA and will race only WERA in 2001. I raced with CCS once last year at CMP and noticed a definite lack of concern for rider safety. The racers and staff were nice, it's just a personal preference. I'm not saying CCS is a bad organization, I just didn't have a good experience. I also agree with Wrenn. Tech inspectors should always visually confirm that important parts such as drain plugs, filters, etc. are wired correctly. We all make mistakes sometimes and miss things, so it's good to have a second set of eyes look over your bike.
Multi wave starts in CCS were horrible (1999 season). And since they gridded on entry it was terrible if you didn't preenter. Chuck is awesome multiwave starter. You can start in the second wave and be in the middle of the first wave at T1 easy.
OOps guess I was getting Suzuki cup with stock forks mixed up. The sportsman CCS looks like Clubman but with more classes I guess. kinda hits on older bikes and allows old oil cooled GSXRs to run against SV800(?) in their heavy class FZR(500)s and hawks in middle and EX Ducati 750SS and such in light
I could have used one of those shirts last year. This year I intend to keep ahead of the pack so they can't scuff up my shiny new paint job.
Sean, CCS sportsman is roughly analagous to Clubman except that only singles are formula based, twins and above are based on SB rules. They split it 3 ways LT, MW and HW, but there's no Novice/Expert distinction. They also have a four-stroke singles class. JMO, but I think for the average Hawk/EX/GS guy, and certainly for anyone with a single the CCS class structure is better than WERA's. Whether it makes sense in the larger scheme, or from a business point of view I don't know. The full type/model breakdown is: LIGHTWEIGHT SPORTSMAN Single cylinder, Unlimited displacement Two stroke, any configuration, up to 410cc Twin cylinder, air cooled, non-desmodromic valves up to 700cc Twin cylinder, air cooled, desmodromic valves, up to 650cc Twin cylinder, air cooled, 2 valve, push rod, up to 890cc Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, up to 500cc Four cylinder, liquid cooled, pre-1987 model year, up to 450cc Four cylinder, air cooled, 2 valve, up to 570cc MIDDLEWEIGHT SPORTSMAN Single cylinder, Unlimited displacement Two stroke, any configuration, up to 500cc Twin cylinder, air cooled, non-desmodromic valves up to 900cc Twin cylinder, air cooled, desmodromic valves, up to 800cc Twin cylinder, air cooled, 2 valve, push rod, up to 1050cc Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, pre-1994 model year, up to 700cc Three cylinder, non-fuel injected, up to 900cc Four cylinder, liquid cooled, pre-1987 model year, up to 570cc Four cylinder, air cooled, up to 750cc Harley-Davidson Sportsters of unlimited displacement HEAVYWEIGHT SPORTSMAN Single cylinder, Unlimited displacement Two stroke, Unlimited displacement Twin cylinder, air cooled, Unlimited displacement Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, 3 or less valves per cylinder, Unlimited displacement Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, 4 valve per cylinder, non-desmodromic valves ,up to 800cc Three cylinder, non-fuel injected, up to 1200cc Four cylinder, air-cooled, up to 1200cc Four cylinder, liquid cooled (oil or water), pre-1987 model year, up to 860cc All air-cooled, 2-valve, unlimited displacement
It is still just overprocessed meat with thousand island dressing regardless of club. you were talking about McDonalds right? Will we see you guys in Texas??? [This message has been edited by Texracer85 (edited 01-23-2001).]