Vintage Schedule - Mongo

I don't agree with you on the points system as far as it being confusing, I do understand that keeping up with it can be a pain. ( with the transponder system a simple points management program could solve the issue for points totals)

MOST of the questions and confusion comes from the difference in regional points and national points, double points races do not count for regional points. This year some confusion happened with CMP having two races with dates close together from the MA and Se regions some MA and SE guys were confused because they attended the wrong race and thought they had not been properly awarded points. The system is pretty simple to me, you keep your best 6 races including 1 double points race.

The confusion comes when people attend two double points race, win one and finish second in the other, some think you get to keep one double points race at each level you finish, I.E. you get a double points first and if you go to another and finish second that is a separate finish you get one double points race and that is all. I guess that when you have more than two finishes at a particular level and you get a double points finish at the same level it can be confusing, just apply the simple rule 6 best, one double point finish included, some try and make it more complicated than it is.

Most of the confusion can be eliminated by running regional points the same as the national points.

As for the same guys winning, yea that is the case in some classes, these guys are FAST and experienced on the tracks and ride good equipment, change the points system and rules, if these fast guys can make enough races they are STILL going to win, the answer is get faster and BEAT them!

BTW next time your going to have a beer and discuss this, drop me a PM, I’d love to participate on a first hand basis...

I think this is a great dialogue and appreciate the opportunity to express my opinion and read others....

My 2C worth

 

Well, everybody else has already brought up great points in this discussion. I'll just add why I decided to race vintage with WERA.

A. Able to compete for a National Championship without having to drive all over the country (time and expense prohibitive).
B. My bike is not obsolete every 2 or 3 years like in modern classes. (cost prohibitive to upgrade often)
C. Typically not competing with 20 year olds who are willing to punt you off the track for just a trophy. (got to go to work each Monday)
D. Able to race a bike model that has fond teenage memories for me. (sentimental attachment to RZ350's)

WERA for me has provided the best avenue to pursue this sport based on the above. If somebody else can do it better, than like any other service I'll go there.

I am in a unique transition in my racing hobby. I feel the vintage grids are too low and there are not enough challenges to satisfy my competitive nature. So, I'm making plans to ADD a modern race bike to the stable for 2006. I won't leave vintage because I still enjoy riding the RZ and the people in vintage are some of the best around. This will give me Saturday racing for vintage and Sunday for modern. Twice the fun (and cost). I know this goes against my original cost reasons for racing vintage above, but 3 years have passed and I have improved my financial situation to where by 2006 I should be able to afford it. Back in 2002 I couldn't.

 

As a rider who runs both organizations, I can say that's the one most important area where AHRMA keeps my attention- I like the opportunities to take off in a pack of 20 vintage 250GP bikes.
I'm sure the riders, the management, and everyone involved would be happy if we could get that to happen in WERA Vintage.

 

i agree its a cool grid in ahrma at the big events. of course its only two or three guys even close after a lap. always someone to race with regardless of skill level.

 

Mongo, i have to agree that the fast guys will win or be up front regardless of point and schedual changes.
as far as someone suggesting that these guys winning is a problem i dont get it. cant tell you how many races morrow lapped me when i first started racing. didnt complain, actually its motivating.
first racing goal:
dont let morrow lap me. etc.
sounds like certain people wanting to move to canada in nov.
i usually propose 3-5 rule changes a year but only a couple have ever been adopted. havent picked up my ball and left yet.
maybe you could tell those former riders to participate in the process, surely they still have a favorite bike they would like to race.

 

After thinking about this further, the only part of the points that causes problems is double point races, It confuses people trying to calculate their national standings and those that don't know that doubles don't count for regionals think they are getting cheated. do away with all double points races except for the GNF, or count them in the regional calculations, no more confusion!

 

Guys , It's really not necessary for us to air our opinions anymore because what will be will be. Our opinions don't mean as much as those beer drinking buddies who quit because the same people were winning all the time ( READ : they or their machines weren't competitive enough to win and they weren't willing to to put forth the effort to change those factors , YET they have the answers as to how or under what conditions they'll come back.) Never mind the ones who do win who spend untold hours refining our equipment and trying to learn how to go faster. Isn't that what racing is ? Or should we expect to win just because we show up on the weekends when it doesn't interfere with our partying ? Our views are also biased ! What the hell does that mean ? We all want to race and win . It's just that some of us want it worse than the others and/or we're fortunate enough to have enough help to obtain what we want. So now it's down to how to make NEW winners. One of the main reasons I switched over from AHRMA to WERA Vintage was that a regular guy who wasn't wealthy and couldn't take off 6-8 months of the year to chase points all over the country could be on equal footing with any and all others in his class because of the 6 race/max 120 points rules and stand a chance at a national championship. It's worked so well in the past that , like with any major corporation nowadays and the federal government , something must be wrong with it and it's got to be changed. Let the decree be : Those who win - don't do it anymore . What a crock !

 

I agree with the six max 120 point set up. For me this is a hobbie. I'm too old and too slow for it to be anything but a hobbie. With the max six, at least I have a chance of finishing near the top. The fast guys will always win and that's the way it should be. I don't want it unless I earn it. Bottom line, when I was a kid I only dreamed of road racing. I'm getting to live out my dream .... Thanks WERA !

 

I live to crack you up Really missed seeing you at the track this year.

Tina did great, finished 2nd in the Champions division to someone half her age and we were very pleased.

I screwed up big time, waited to long to touch base with you before we left and didn't have your number, called two local wine companys/dealers I found in the local yellow pages but couldn't track you down there or the local white pages, ended up doing some serious damage to some ribs and margarita's at some place called Rockola or something in Garner. (don't ever let your fingers to close to a bodybuilder who been on a pre contest diet for 18 weeks) I was happy to be alive after the drive to & from the local airport to pick up our daughter in the mother of all rain storms (24, single, pretty, smart, future eye docter, seeing someone I'm less then thrilled with...hint, hint, anyone????????)

Stay cool.

Bob

 

Huh?

Surely your not talking about me and my beer buddy Bob.Hell,I won every race but 1 in 7MW,even on slicks in a rain storm(no offense to my teammate)he thought he had me with those full rains.Won 2 regionals,1 on a turd,and 1 national,and as Bob would say,this is just my opinion.I would rather get 5th out of 20 than 1st out of 4 and Im quite sure Bob did his share of winning.Anybody that can run a 107 at Tally on an old 450 and be right there with Tim is probably winning some races.All I wanted was Sean to let all F3's in because I think they would be coming out of the woodwork and Im on an inferior F2,but I welcome them.I dont think the GP250's should be in MW,but I welcome them as well.I cant even keep Sweeney,Skiles or Lance in sight on those things,but there also better riders than I am.This is only my second year but 03 was a brawl every race but then everybody left.Thats no good.Maybe I should shower more often.Im just a 40yr.old that got hooked late in life and I just love that Spinach 7MW and riding w/people that ride clean and safe.Its just awesome.
Gimme more,Gimme more!!!!!!


I have to agree w/Yamaha Fan on the D/points thing,but whatever is decided is otay w/me.Like that matters.......Rock-on


THE END


Well maybe not.As to the above quote,just remember,You can put a damn-good rider on a half-ass bike and he will still stomp your ass....

 

Steve, you were reading my mind, Sean you must have been drinking at the Vortex let me know next time your headed there, I have never been

 

Regarding points: (what he said)
IMO, keep the top 6 finishes plus the GNF for the National Championship. Keep the GNF double points. Get rid of any double point rounds during the season.

 

maybe this would work

I raced the V6HW this year #999 and honestly I think if its a national event or regional the vintage should be included in them all........something else maybe we could run it on an extra day or something........bit I cant travel to much....ya know married with children and this year my son will join me so even more cost on a light income.......haha.....or maybe tighten up some of the smaller vintage groups so we could run more together at the same time to make more vintage races that are alittle closer.......maybe right ??

 

I think you need to keep the double points round. Take the mid atlantic region, if there are only 6 rounds and you win 5 but dnf the sixth, then your out of the national picture. I know you can go to another region to get your sixth finish , but if you are on a fixed racing budget thats not always possible with the extra traveling and all. I try to plan and budget my season in january for the next season . With work and family obligations its hard to make over 6 weekends a year plus the gnf. The double round sure helps in case you have a problem somewhere. I like it the way things are. This is just my opinion. Thanks .

 

Mongo -
What changes are contemplated to "fix" the currently "broken" system? What suggestions/comments did the Vortx drinkers make that identify the "problems" with the current (or perhaps now, past) system? Perhaps some specific identification of these issues could help focus this rambling, and repetitive discussion. Thank you.

 

However the schedule shakes out, I myself really need to see one soon. Pretty PLease.

I don't doubt it would be great to have a vintage weekend at every sportsman event from a standpoint of being able to pick and choose your weekends to race and work around anyones job as far as time off is concerned. But what would the grid size work out to be race week to race week? Many classes are already hurting & I fear a year of that format would be the final straw for classes hurting already for grid size wise. What would become of them? Will 250GP, 350GP & 50GP become just GP? Will V3 & F500 have to be lumped together.

I respect those who think a reduced schedule will do nothing to help grid size, but do you also feel a race at every sportsman event will not hurt? Plenty of you have already said a format that makes you travel more may in effect make you race less.

I don't feel Vintage is broken, but looking at the grid trends overall the last 5 or so years, some tweaking seems to be in order. My biggest worry is that a class or classes will be pulled & I'm 100% against that, a era and machine size of any motorcycle shouldn't just be tossed aside, but because this is just hobby for us does not change the fact that its still a busness for Wera & as such they may have to trim something if it doesn't at some point begin to carry its own weight.

We all want to protect our own turf, be it a region or class, its only natural, but if we expect to be racing vintage bikes 5 years from now on machines and in classes as they are today we are all going to have to bend a little.

I don't know what Wera has planned for the schedule, given a choice between more races at all sportsman events and sticking with it as it is now, I'd have to go with it as it is now (or was)

If I woke from a dream to find that I was charged with drawing up a plan for the format a couple years down the road. I'd keep the current vintage regions as they are now (3) hold 5 races in each region for a region championship, but count 6 races toward the Vintage GNF race with that race being the only double points race. The regional races would all be completed by late august with a traveling road show stand alone Vintage GNF Fest, to held at a different track each year in early/mid sept, bouncing from one vintage region to another each & every year and not being at the same track each time it returns to another region. That would not forgo however a couple of non-championship races afterward at Road Atlanta, Nashville, Jennings (Where ever it warm enough to hold events late into the year)

Bob