Tire warmer tests.

I have no doubt knowing RRW that the warmers test was accurate with the warmers that they had to test with. I know that the first warmers we (Rich Conicelli and Brian Livengood) got from Tire Bakers were too short element wise to completely cover the 208GPs. The replacement warmers (latest version early 2002)from Tire Bakers did fit perfectly, elements completely covered the tire and worked flawlessly and predictably for us all year. The shock warmers from Traxxion ALWAYS went on when the bikes were cold and were a MAJOR help to setting the bikes up due to better suspension feel earlier in the sessions. I think that they definately helped get up to speed sooner on the tracks.

 

Re: Re: more on warmers

Why do people think this way? Race tire compounds are stickier than street tires at all temperature ranges.

 

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What is the best method to scrub in new tires and bring them to optimal operating temperture?

My method has been to go out in the first session and not carry much corner speed/lean angle. I would run normal on the straights and brake like hell. My theory being that I would generate heat in the center of the carcass and then that heat would transfer throughout the tire. I would run like this for 5 laps (give or take) depending on track temperture. Is this a good practice? What is a better way? Thanks...

 

Michelin, Dunlop, Bridgestone, and Metzler have several little labcoat wearing poindexters doing analysis too. They have more than likely put out one or two memos regarding tire temps.

Just giving you a hard time but the tires don't last long enough for the principles you mentioned to be a concern.

There is no way a tire can be warmed up to race temp during a warmup lap.

 

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If you are a front of the pack rider then your braking and accellerationg during the first few laps will work it out for you. Those of use that run toward the back of the pack really don't have much to worry about. I don't use warmers on my bike, and I just do a scrubbing lap. Tire temp at the levels I push have never been a problem for me even from the first lap.

IMO alot of club racers get mainly a mental edge from the warmers until they start developing the skill to run up front. There is nothing wrong with the mental edge. It would take more than warmers to give me a mental edge.

 

Professional racers don't scrub tires, and they do use warmers. That should answer most of your questions about what to do to prepare for the race!

 

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I wrote a long winded response to a similar question a while back, I'll try to locate it and post a link to it. Remember that tires heat up due to rolling resistance and the resulting flexing of the carcass as it deforms under load. It's called elastic hysteresis. Same reason a rubber band gets warm when you repeatedly stretch it. They also heat up due to contact friction with the road surface. In racing conditions, elastic hysterisis is the major cause of heat.

That understood, just running around on the warm-up lap will put significant heat in the tires. Depending on a number of factors, cold tires (not using warmers) will reach from 70% - 82% of their post-race temperature (for a 12-15 mile sprint race) during the warm-up lap. Tires that have been pre-warmed using warmers will be on average somewhere between 92% to full race temperature after the warm-up lap. That's based on testing I've done this year on Pirelli/Metzler with a fast rider. My testing was not completely controlled or scientific, but more for baselines for future reference, however the numbers are reliable.

Tire warmers help tremendously, because they will allow you to run hard almost immediately. It's not just a psychological thing - it's both a safety and performance issue and can give you an edge.

 

Understood, agreed. I'm buying Baker's Bakers for next season. However, isn't there a layer of silica that coats the contact surface of the tire that needs to be removed? I admit the only information I have is from people in the pits who don't know what they are talking about...

So, if I have a new set of tires I only need to do the following?
1. Remove stickers
2. Leave warmers on for 45 minutes prior to session
3. Run hard from lap 1?

The reason I ask is that I thought I had a cold tire lowside. It was four laps into a session at Moroso in 50 degree F air tempeture. I attributed it to too much lean at low time on the tire. It also happened at the only significant right hand corner. Since this crash I've spent the first session not pushing because of my paranoia...

 

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Thanks for the science lesson. I'll stray off topic a little, what about cold tearing? When I rode the RC51 I seemed to get alot of cold tearing on the tire. I was using the old Michelin race with 28psi rear and 30 psi front. I had been told it was because the tires did not come up to temperture properly.

I think it was a suspension issue. The rear shock never was right and I attribute that to the cold tearing. I really don't know, could you offer any insight? I've switched to a GSXR 600 and Pirellis for next season. I'd like to be able to diagnosis this problem if I run into it again. Thanks.

 

I usually remove the stickers. It depends on when I plug my "Tyre Sox" w/ cozy's in. THe first time out in the morning I plug them in for 30-40 min. If it is warm out approx. 20 min. Unplug go out for the warm up lap ( I run a pretty hard warm up lap)and go like hell from the green flag. I am the second owner of the warmers. They are at least 4-5 years old. I don't have a problem with them. In practice I usually cruise a lap or two for the first session to get a feel for the bike, tires, and track. Then go

 

So I guess from you post you are "ANTI" Tyre Sox. They do have insulation, the cute cozy. I am not a smart man, but I know when to unplug my warmers. My problem is remembering to plug them in not unplug. Although I have seen two people forget to unplug/check for neutral this year and neither brand held up very well. I haven't a opinion, just babling about.

$280 (if you are a lp support rider)-$350 (retail) a set for the "Tyre Sox" is a lot cheaper than $425.00.

I suggest having tire warmers to be a good thing no matter the brand

 

That is interesting, we(the rider )and most of the other pros I observed never(a little strong but we tried to never do it) went for a race on a tire that was not scrubbed for at least one lap. And it was a top level privateer.

Not arguing just interesting to read. Maybe things have changed in the last 2 seasons since he retired. BTW, it was Michelins and Dunlops that he rode on.

 

Everyone seems to be looking at the raw data and not correlating it to the comments made by the tire reps at the beginning of the article. My conclusions were:

Pirelli/Metzeler use TyrSox
Michelin use ChickenHawk or Bandit Pro
Dunlop use any but adjust the amount of time on the warmers ( i.e. shorter with the high heat warmers and a bit longer with the lower heat warmers)


As for the original post I personally wouldn't leave a tire on the warmers for more than 45 minutes because it hardens the tire, kinda like the old flat trackers throwing their tires up on the house roof to harden them up.

Aaron L.

 

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Tearing is usually the result of improper inflation. Underinflated tires flex more and overheat, which can result in hot tearing. Overinflated tires don't flex as much and run colder which can result in cold tearing. Suspension problems generally shred the tire.

You should talk to your tire guy and get the recommended cold inflation pressure and the operating pressure for the current conditions. It will vary from track to track and on weather conditions. The cold pressure is just a starting point, you should always check tire pressure after coming in. All things being equal, a properly inflated tire will gain about 5-6 lbs from cold to hot. If the tire gained more than that, it was probably underinflated. If it gained less than 5-6 lbs then it was probably overinflated. In either case, let the tire cool down (slowly, with a warmer on but unplugged), then adjust the pressure accordingly.

 

There is one significant detail here that is being overlooked.

If you are using a set of tires so many times that you are worried about them hardening as a result of warming them, then you are going so slow that you don't need warmers anyway.

If you don't use a set of tires down to the cords in a weekend, you are just plain going slow.

Fast guys have to put a new set on for each race.

Pro guys get a new set of tires pretty much anytime they go onto the track, and even halfway through a race if there is a red flag.

So if tire degradation due to warming is what you are worried about, forget it.

 

Going back to my auto racing days, "tire scrubbing" is a very specific term that refers to the sideways slip of the tire due to a lateral load.

Some TV announcers have mistakenly referred to the weaving back and forth on the race track that you see drivers doing on warm-up laps as tire scrubbing. I guess that by jerking the steering wheel around you can cause some minor push that could be construed as scrubbing, but that's a stretch and mis-application of the term.

I don't see how you can create tire scrubbing on a motorcycle during a warm-up lap without ending up on your a$$.

 

i think the term motorcycle racers use is scuffing, not scrubbing. about 50% of the time i go out to grid for a race with brand new tires with stickers still on them, never been scuffed but previously warmed with tire warmers and always go 100% on the first lap without incident. id like to hear jim allens take on the importance of "scuffing".

i always see world superbike riders/teams using warmers. and i always see them swerving madly prior to gridding on the warm up lap, sometimes to the point of dragging elbows. do they know something we dont?? i think i remember urlich writing an article saying swerving accomplished nothing.
chime in john and enlighten us.

 

maybe they're workin' the suspension? sounds like time for another test?!?

 

The shock warmer was a great idea, and it seems to be a commercial success. I think I've even seen them used on race cars (nascar, etc...)

But, most the the "cold tire" crashes I've seen have been low sides caused by loss of traction on the front tire. While I realize the rear shock will effect traction on both tires, it seems that in this particular case, "fork warmers" would be equally indespensable.

Well, what do you think? Do we need fork'in' warmers.