Take offs

Discussion in 'General' started by Nytrozula, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. SpeedyTide

    SpeedyTide 'Bama's Bad Boy

    Well!! Someone that knows some shit!! Amen, well put!!

    If we ever meet I'll buy 'ya a beer or three!!

    I've ran 23's on cords at Jennings! A respectable pace I think....on worn out shit! Heat cycles be damned.
    NemesisR6 and motoracer1100 like this.
  2. SpeedyTide

    SpeedyTide 'Bama's Bad Boy

    LOL!! I saw the thread title, and thought someone's had to have thought of me!! : )
    Sabre699 likes this.
  3. SpeedyTide

    SpeedyTide 'Bama's Bad Boy

    Been a few times at Jennings where, usually newer but decent pace, guys mention they're slippin' & slidin'....well, it's possible. I'd go look at the tire wear, compound, date code, and tell'em 99% sure tire(s) fine! Mention it could be tire pressures, a suspension set-up issue, exceptionally hot greasy track surface, or even the guy has Dayum good lean angle, or getting a bit greedy with the throttle. Sometime they'll insist on new rubber. Take'em over and point to my tires, and mention my times with theirs. They look at me like I'm nuts. Well, perhaps I am.

    My favorite was a few years back. Guy comes by looking at my front and asks me..."How you like the (I can't recall actual name) Michelin V front?" I replied.... "It's a Dunlop Ntec." It was a bit worn, and was V shaped. : )
    SpeedyE likes this.
  4. mike-guy

    mike-guy Well-Known Member

    I think my favorite day ever was a track day with a new front and a shagged rear. I knew the tire was smoked and I wasn't going to put the fresh one on until morning for the races but I was able to slide the rear out further and with more control than ever. Lap times were down 3 sec but I had a blast doing it.

    OP - Be honest with yourself and your skill. If you just entered the A group probably ok to run some take offs but realize you will need to feel them out each time they are mounted. Can't treat it like a fresh tire and just hammer first T1. IMO unless you are sliding a set of Q3's (or equivalent) around consistently then "trackway" tires are an insane value and last way longer.
    SpeedyE likes this.
  5. metricdevilmoto

    metricdevilmoto Just forking around

    At an N2 day at Pittsburgh last year, Emerson brought up two rims and put them on the rack. They looked to be in very good condition, and it was a track day, so I asked what was up. He tells me that a container of oil spilled in his trailer on the way there and both tires sat in it for quite some time. I toss him some chalk, tell him to write OIL on the tires and I'll sort him out with some freshies.

    Later that day, a track day fella walks up and asks who the millionaire on the 710 bike is and why he's tossing mint rears. I have no idea what he's talking about. He repeats himself and points to the trash stack. I realize that the OIL is upside down on the trash pile. I tell him that they are junk and after he leaves, I poke the sidewalls with a pocket knife (which is way harder than I thought it would be, never did it before).

    When I woke up to start tire service the next morning, I saw someone had saved me the trouble of disposing of them and stole them overnight.

    Just curious @SpeedyTide what you run at Jennings on a new set of tires vs the times you were running on those takeoffs.
  6. TurboBlew

    TurboBlew Registers Abusers

    then why not regular old street tires? Or all them old tires on the rack outside the tire shed? I know I watched a couple of racers run about 5 seconds faster on street Q2s on stock bikes with turn signals?
    Also casually riding vs going 10/10ths pace...
  7. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    Mike now it's time for a nob to post up a pic of how to repair those sidewalks so he can TD that oily rubber :crackup:
    JBowen33 and badmoon692008 like this.
  8. BigBird

    BigBird blah

    Who cares about times? Obviously they work since they get you around the track.
  9. NemesisR6

    NemesisR6 Gristle McThornbody

    I'm there a few times a year, so maybe I'll take you up on that. We'll drink a couple Bud heavy's that have been sitting out for a few hours to keep the theme consistent. Should taste about the same as a fresh one.

    I am about the same way at that track, though. Fresh tires at Jennings I can run 1:20-21's with my best being a 1:20.08. After about 6-8 of those laps on a med or med+ Dunlop slick (KR449 or KR451) and that starts to gradually fall off as it starts to struggle on corner exit. The fronts last considerably longer, obviously, though that may be more a condition of me being a nancy on the brakes.
    TurboBlew likes this.
  10. Sabre699

    Sabre699 Wait...hold my beer.

    They ain't seen nuttin'. ;)
    I can remember talking to you in the pits and remarking on the length of the cords hanging off of your tires. :D
    TurboBlew likes this.
  11. MELK-MAN

    MELK-MAN The Dude abides...

    you're kinda missin the point of his comment ...
    metricdevilmoto likes this.
  12. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    Answered or not, the answer is the same...speed costs money. :D
    MELK-MAN, SpeedyE and BigBird like this.
  13. MELK-MAN

    MELK-MAN The Dude abides...

    .. so does safety. Especially if you are stupid. Life is hard if you are stupid.. ;)
  14. metricdevilmoto

    metricdevilmoto Just forking around

    Because lap times are how we can judge performance on a race track. If the times weren't relevant, then he wouldn't have mentioned the times he was doing on take-offs, right?
    JBowen33 and TurboBlew like this.
  15. xTomKx

    xTomKx Well-Known Member

    I've been running takeoffs for years. Last year I was running tires that were few years old when I felt the front getting away from me few times. Upon inspection I discovered a radial crack in the front tire. Chances of those types of defects are much greater with old tires.

    It's also very important how used tires are stored in the winter. Cold temps are known to destroy race tires.

    Bottom line is If You Aint Slidin You Aint Ridin.
  16. Venom51

    Venom51 John Deere Equipment Expert - Not really

    Takes off are a false economy every time. Period. They are always a cheaper solution until the bike hits the ground.
    TurboBlew and MELK-MAN like this.
  17. metricdevilmoto

    metricdevilmoto Just forking around

    I don't disagree fundamentally, but in practice (for some people) it makes sense. The justification and the "facts" is fuzzy sometimes, though. Saying Racer X does some lap time 10 seconds faster than a novice track day rider with the cords showing isn't any kind of guarantee that the novice track day rider can do those times on those tires. The novice track day rider needs good race tires to do those times, even if they seem "slow" to the expert racer. Which is why I asked about what times @SpeedyTide does on new tires. If he does 20s at Jennings on new rubber and 23s on whooped take-offs, it means those take-offs are slowing him down 3 seconds a lap. If a novice track day rider is doing 30s on good tires, he can at least expect the same increase in lap times on the same whooped tires, if not more. So he can expect to do 33s, not the 23s Speedy is doing. Speedy is doing 23s on whooped tires because he's proficient at riding a motorcycle, not because whooped tires are good for 23s. A novice rider is relying more on the grip of a new tire to turn their respective lap times than an expert to do the same lap times.

    I've made that same mistake before and used the same backwards logic. And then every time I bring this up, someone mentions some reasonably fast lap time some fast racer did on a stock bike on street tires at some track not realizing that they're actually reinforcing my point, not theirs.

    In the end, the racers and track day riders that deal with me regularly know I don't have anything along the lines of a sales pitch, but I like facts. There are hardly any parts on your motorcycle that get destroyed in a crash that cost less than a front tire. And, after you replace those parts, you still have to buy a front tire.
    Gino230, JBowen33, TurboBlew and 4 others like this.
  18. xTomKx

    xTomKx Well-Known Member

    Some people think if their tires slide they will crash. You can usually spot them by slicks and novice group sticker.
    badmoon692008 likes this.
  19. metricdevilmoto

    metricdevilmoto Just forking around

    Sure. And some people also think that the way to learn how to go fast is by never actually going fast, but by sliding a bike all over a race track on junk tires. You can usually spot them because they're crashing.
    Gino230, busa99 and JBowen33 like this.
  20. britx303

    britx303 Struggling stoic.......

    But what if you use your own year old take-offs and still podium with them?:D
    turner38 and SpeedyE like this.

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