Pirelli tire selection

Discussion in 'Tech' started by Pneumatico Delle Vittorie, Jun 15, 2018.

  1. tgold

    tgold Well-Known Member

    If you're going to try to use an infrared thermometer you have to understand their limitations as there are many things that affect their accuracy and if the parameters aren't tightly controlled you will get inconsistent data which will lead you down a road that will be frustrating at best. Your results will suck. Even the timing of when you do temperature checks will heavily influence data. If you're doing a cool-off lap you can forget about getting any useful data because your tires will be doing exactly that: Cooling off. Length of the track, your speed and track temp will all influence this. The best you can hope for to pull in directly off the track into hot pit and have somebody ready to check temps immediately without even putting the bike on stands. However measurements will still not be consistently accurate or precise. If you want to get more consistent results you'll need a pyrometer and not an infrared thermometer. Here is a video on the definitions of accuracy and precision and why both are important: Accuracy and Precision | It's Easy! - Bing video

    Pneumatico is right. If you want the most useful data you need onboard infrared temp sensors. Your IR gun is at best a tool for relative measurements in this case.

    However, if you want to continue working with checking temps with your IR temp gauge then make yourself a tool that will fit on the gauge and will hold the gun perpendicular to, and at a fixed distance away from the tire surface. This will give you the most consistent results from the gauge itself.
     
  2. Boman Forklift

    Boman Forklift Well-Known Member

    I wish I read that before I started trying to do it, I wouldn't have had to waste so much effort.

    I would log the temps with a prob style temp gauge, as well as the pressures right after he exited the track. Pressures I could get figured out, but couldn't really figure anything out with the temperatures. I did notice on cold days it was hard to keep temp in the front tire, this was 10 years ago so memory is foggy, but I think on a cold winter day in the desert he could come off the warmers at 180F ish and come back in between 135-145F on the front.
     
  3. 2blueYam

    2blueYam Track Day Addict

    On a cold mornings at Shenny, I didn't need anything to measure the tire temp besides my hand to know my SC2 slicks were coming off the track a lot cooler than when I went out. Pressures dropped as well of course. Bike felt like it was skating all over the place, with the front feeling worse than the rear. Dropping the pressures about 1.5lb-2lb under my "normal" pressures helped this situation for me. Tires stayed warmer, closer to pressure, near temp (by hand feel) and the bike didn't feel like it was skating all over the place. Shenny is a very slow and slippery track on a cold mornings, so this isn't a solution for every track and tire. It was consistent between my 2003 R1 and 2004 SV650. At cold days on faster higher grip tracks like NCBike or the repaved Summit Main I find I don't need to do this.
     
  4. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    Imagine that :crackup:
     
    tgold likes this.
  5. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    2021 News
    The World Supersport (600) developed 190/60R17 slick is coming here and the ETA is mid-summer or earlier
    A 200/60R17 Rain for big Superbikes along with a 180/55 SC1 slick for the Kramer riders were added last year
    The 120/70R17 slick matches up with 160/60 to 200/60 rears, and the 125/70R17 is speced for the 200/65R17
    The worldwide racing market has changed and the demand for DOT race compound tires has shrunk so, the race compound DOTs are being phased out in 2021. But the Trackday Diablo Supercorsa DOTs (TD) will be readily available
     
  6. PPPope

    PPPope Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the information. I bought a pile of 200/60 SC1 slicks I’m really looking forward to burning up at PittRace. I’ve got 1 SC2 120/70 front...what’s the harm pairing these tears with the new 125/70 front? Profile issues?

    Thanks
     
  7. Wheel Bearing

    Wheel Bearing Professional low sider

    No idea, but to play devils advocate, why not just stick with the 120/70 front until you run out of your 200/60s?
     
  8. PPPope

    PPPope Well-Known Member

    You’re right, and that’s what I’ll probably do. I’m just interested in the 125/70 info. Like most us, I’ve mixed and matched sizes, brands, compounds, slick/DOT over the years without too many issues. The front and rear don’t talk to each other. Do they? :)
     
  9. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    With the introduction of the larger 200/65 rear the engineers & WSBK riders found a larger front tire was needed to get a better balance/stability/feel while cornering with big side loads. So, its not just that the new rear is a lot taller with a bigger contact area than the 200/60. and FYI the new wider and taller 125/70 front was tested by Pirelli test riders/WSBK racers with 180/60, 190/60, and 200/60 rears but the tire didn’t provide any advantage over the current 120/70.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
    KevinT707, PPPope and 2blueYam like this.
  10. PPPope

    PPPope Well-Known Member

    That’s what I was looking for. Thanks!

     
  11. 05Yamabomber

    05Yamabomber Dammit Haga

    I remember always seeing a pair of those YAMAMONSTERs at FUSA at Big Willow in the 90s.
     
  12. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    There's a tire sale going on now.
    upload_2021-2-11_14-7-4.png
     
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  13. PPPope

    PPPope Well-Known Member

    Counting the days until my wife finds my stash. 2019 stock has been deeply discounted...and I’m taking full advantage!
     

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  14. ____Kurt____

    ____Kurt____ Member

    That's awesome. I would be lying if I said I wasn't jealous.:beer:
     
    PPPope likes this.
  15. PPPope

    PPPope Well-Known Member

    Thanks pal. SC3s are for April and October PittRace...the rest of the year is stick and twist with the SC1s!
     
  16. ____Kurt____

    ____Kurt____ Member

    I love pittRace, went there for the first time last year and I have a credit with N2 so I plan on making the trip back this year. It was also the first time I dealt with Alex @ Tracksidetires and had a great experience. Im glad to see he's the one filling the tire slot over here at NJMP for this upcoming season. Only thing that sucks is I just had thermosman set my suspension up for Dunlops over the winter as I was anticipating on running the track vendors tires, but just got news that changed.
     
  17. PPPope

    PPPope Well-Known Member

    Yes, both Alex and MDM are fantastic to work with, both trackside and on the retail side of things. I particularly loaded up on Pirelli because I won’t be able to get any at my N2 events. Going to miss that support for sure.
     
    metricdevilmoto likes this.
  18. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    As stated by MDM recently

    "the conditions the tires work in and durability have a lot to do with you. Having the right springs on the motorcycle for your pace and weight is very important to take full advantage of the grip the tires offer as well as their longevity. Good warmers with a good power supply and an accurate tire gauge are also very important to insuring you're getting the most out of the tires. People think of tires as an independent part of the motorcycle, but, really, they are connection between all your control inputs (steering, braking and throttle) and chassis setup and suspension and the track. The better everything above of the tires is working (you included), the better they can work on what's below them."
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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