Next time you talk to Jesus...

PT, try this one on: I believe that faith is just hope that grew up. If you cling to hope (in Jesus), you'll find your faith. I say 'cling to' because the literal translation of 'believe' in John 3:16 is 'trust in, cling to and rely on'.

Don't get caught up in all this philosophy about proof, etc. You already know better. We've got to come to Him as a child to daddy. Depending on what picture of 'daddy' we have in our minds, that could be harder or easier, but you understand.

 

Do you really want to find God, or are you simply trying to rationalize why bad things happen in this world? From my perception it looks as if you go, "ok God, i'll believe in you and give you what you want if you come over here and do a tap dance for me"...other than that is simply looks like you try to rationalize why bad things happen if there truly is a God who is a loving creator as all of us lunatic christians claim that he is...why would he let that 2 year old get run over by a car? why did my dog get hit by a moped and so on? Life is simply a trial, with eternity as a reward or as a punishment...while acts do not determine whether or not you go to heaven according to christianity, your faith shall produce such acts that testify to your salvation...i don't do crap...so sometimes i wonder about myself...but God allows bad things to happen to see the resilliancy<sp?> of his people...and to build faith...sometimes its to get a persons attention...this would be another session brought to you by jeff talking out his ars...because i don't have all the answers...but we're not meant to have all the answers, if we did, God wouldn't be glorified by us overcoming the obstacles in our lives...

 

Jeff,

Jiminy! If not in the details, at least in the spirit, we're in agreement.

Who'da thunk it???

 

Lord...GIVE ME STRENGTH!!!!


I've agreed with you 90% in the past Almost one of my bbs buddies It's not a surprise to me

 

Re: Re: Next time you talk to Jesus...

Greenster, I have a brand new respect. That is an absolutely wonderful post and very thought provoking. But why are some people's lifes (trials) harder than others? FWIW I found God after (and during the process of) I quit drinking. But Papa is in a situation that he cannot change. So in my mind Papa's acceptance of God must way harder to achieve then my own.

 

Sorry Papa, if you think I am speaking for you, I couldn't and wouldn't.

 

my god doesn't interfere with day-to-day things... maybe it's too simple... but but good and bad happen indescriminantly

 

wow...you mean you believe in god like the rest of us simpletons?? or was that sarcasm?? any quantifiable evidence to backup that statement?!?!?!?!!?

 

No problem at all.

 

Re: Re: Next time you talk to Jesus...

There is nothing to rationalize. As far as I'm concerned, life is just a series of random events we navigate by making our own decisions. Until proven otherwise. The difference between me and people who say I am wrong is that I am willing to consider the possibility of the "otherwise."

 

Papa

Yes you are correct - The logic is inescapable....

1) God is not omnipotent and/or...

2) God is not always benevolent (in a pro-active way) and/or...

3) God allows (causes) evil things to happen to innocent people for some higer purpose which we cannot fathom...

(Just personally, it is going to take a lot to convince me that there is some higher purpose served by having a newborn baby die in pain.)

I need a day or two to try and reconcile this with my world view - first thought however is that most people have a deep and loving relationship with their parents - despite the fact that such parents are not omnipotent and have their full share of human flaws.

What do you suppose is the basis for mankinds almost universal and deep seated need for religious belief - despite its inherent irrationality, the wars and other stupidities it creates, etc. Does it have some evolutionary basis ? Like why do we even care ?

SH

 

I think it gives people hope. Gives them a reason to believe there is a purpose in life. It also helps them cope with their natural fear of death by turning it into a step in their journey instead of the end.

I wonder if elephants conceptualize the existence of a creator. They are, to my knowledge, the only species that grasps the concept of death.

 

I don't believe in God for either of those reasons...and if i died and it was pure black as atheists believe i would be completely fine with it because you wouldn't be cognisant of the fact that you're dead...i think there are two big reasons for me...the first is curiousity - what is heaven like? how did God heal that person? how did he create life? and then the second reason i do kind of suppose it runs along with your fear of death...its not the fear of dying, but the fear of being eternally separated from God, which is hell...its not an actual fear of death but a fear of what happens after death...there are too many stories of near death experiences with people relating the same stories about out of body experiences for them to be merely made up...there are too many aspects of life that can't be explained or measured by human tools or to simply attribute to chance...not to mention miracles...

 

You people talk about god like there's only one. It's not a name, it's a job description. If there were only one, why the need to tell you not to worship any others? Did they need to put the "do not use in shower" label on the hair dryer before some idiot used the hair dryer in the shower?

And second, instead of being afraid of death, why aren't more people afraid of running out of time to live???

 

Funny that those "near death" stories all originate in Christian nations. Folks who's religious beliefs don't have them expecting to see bright lights and pearly gates and all that bullshit don't have those same experiences. Hospitals in India don't report patients having these experiences.

In case I'm being unclear, those "near death" things are hardly conclusive proof of anything. They're much easier explained by simple things like tunnel vision (common in life-threatening situations or while under anesthesia) and the fact that you're laying on a table with a spotlight over you (there's that bright light for you). Not to mention the simple, preconcieved notion that you're supposed to see that if you're dying. What you're taking as a sign of a Supreme Being is more likely a simple hallucination.

Do you see the circular logic in the above statement? I believe in God because... how did he heal that person? The latter statement takes it as a foregone conclusion that your assumption (God exists) is correct and then uses it as a justification for the whole belief system. I believe my dog is the Messiah. How did he create the earth?

 

what breed is he/she?

that is the first test...

 

It was a trick question; I don't have a dog.

 

the it is true... your godless...

 

Papa

I have been considering this over the last few days - and think you understate the profound human need for religion - which crosses all cultural and racial boundaries.

This human instinct / need is right up there with the need for sex/procreation in terms of its strength and universality - yet does it not seem to be recognized, at least not by the psychological establishment. as even existing.

Am I missing something here.. ?

Steve H.

 

We are here thanks to some incredible odds. Each portion (yes they come in portions) of sperm contain enough individual sperm to fertilize every woman in Europe. Even the ugly ones.

So what are the chances of you being alive - how many identicle chances at life did you have to beat off? Lets say your dad "came" every day from age 15 onwards, for 50 years. Each "portion" contained 100 Million sperm. Thats 50 years * 365 days * 100Million = 1,825,000MILLION.

Just making it to the point of having a life to lead is a massive blessing in itself. Even the baby that is born and dies in pain, beat all those odds to at least have a shot at a life.


So, if your life ends up taking a downturn, chances are it is still better to have lived a shit life, than never to have had the chance.