Motorcycle Side Work - Scared a guy away

I do some random motorcycle work on the side and I think I scared a guy away. People don't want to know the truth and never really tell you the whole story. So the latest guy comes to me and wants a frame swapped on CBR900RR. Which basically has suspicion written all over it. He goes on with this long story about how it is not stolen and some guy screwed him over on the bike many years ago and it has been sitting for 15 years. So I do some research on swapping the frame and if I were to do it solo it would probably take AT LEAST a full 16 hours of work. I explained it to him like this... If I show up to work on Monday morning the bike is completely rebuilt and put back together before I go home Tuesday. I also told him that the 500 bucks to do the frame swap is JUST TO DO THE FRAME SWAP. Nothing else.. Not to get the bike running and riding safely. I took some time to put together parts and labor numbers and detailed everything in a document that I asked him to sign. When I talked to him he was all excited about the deal. But when I laid it down on paper I hear crickets chirping.

It's not the motorcycles that are the difficult part. It's the people. I think people don't want to know the truth and they want their bike fixed for nothing. Below is what I wrote up for this guy.

George, I have been doing some thinking regarding the job to perform the frame swap on the 900RR and I want to agree on the following:


- Immediately after the frame is removed from the bike it leaves my property. Meaning you come and pick it up

- This motorcycle is not my number 1 priority because I have a family and I work 7-5 every day. This is a side job.

- $500 is to swap the frame and the frame only. Nothing else. Bike is disassembled, old frame removed, bike goes back together. It will be 16 hours in labor if I am lucky to perform the frame swap alone bearing no issues. Think of it this way. I show up to work on Monday morning and work 7-5, Tuesday at 5pm the bike is completely assembled. 16 hours is an optimistic number. I would like the $500 upfront to perform the frame swap and the below noted parts in hand.

- $500 does not count getting the bike running and / or operating.

- Compression test to ensure the motor is good is probably the first thing we should do. With it sitting so long it worries me. If we get good compression we move forward with the frame swap. I will include this test in my initial assessment if the motorcycle doesn’t have to be disassembled too far to get to the cylinder head / spark plugs. I will charge a 12 pack of beer for this service.

- Carburetor rebuild will be $200 extra in labor. It is quite a bit of work to go through the rack and rebuild those especially with how long it has been sitting. I suspect every single jet, needle and o-ring needs to be changed along with a thorough cleaning

- Tank flush and cleaning will be included in the carb rebuild if the tank is not badly rusted. If the tank is badly rusted there will be an extra charge to line the tank with a coating product.

- Fuel lines will be included in the carb rebuild

- Fuel Filter will be included in the carb rebuild

- Oil change with filter labor $20. You supply oil and filter

- Full brake bleed front and rear $50

- If the fork seals are leaking they will need to be rebuilt. That’s your call on that. I suggest sending those to my suspension folks at TSE because there are special tools involved with disassemble and reassembly of forks.

- If the rear shock is leaking again I suggest the same as the above

- Removal and installation of forks and shock is $100

- Any parts needed you buy and have delivered to my house

- To start out I suggest you buy swingarm bearings and steering head bearings. The reason behind this is both the age of the bike and the possibility of the bearings being damaged. For a chassis rebuild like we are performing those are the 2 main parts that come to mind that we will need to install the new frame.

- Any excessive time of storage waiting for parts to be delivered will not be tolerated. I am limited on space and will not supply storage if the project becomes stagnant.


Suggested Parts List:

1. Swingarm Bearings and dust seals (Need for sure to do frame swap)

2. Steering Head Bearings and dust seals (Need for sure to do frame swap)

3. Steering head races (Need for sure to do frame swap)

4. Carb Rebuild Kit

5. Spark Plugs

6. Chain

7. Tires

8. Brake pads

9. Fork / Shock rebuild

10. Oil

11. Oil Filter

12. Tank Cream Coating (If needed)


Labor Fees

1. Frame swap $500

2. Carb rebuild $200

3. Brake Bleed $50

4. Fork / Shock removal and install $100

5. Chain Install $20

6. Tire Install $80

7. Brake Pad Install $20

8. Oil Change $20

9. Gas tank cream coating (if needed)$ 75… This is seriously a bitch to do.



Note: I have good luck with purchasing parts through ronayers.com. Their parts availability and delivery is pretty good.


Parts needed to perform frame swap:

1. Qty 1 - DUST SEAL, STEERING HEAD (ARAI) 53214-KA4-701

2. Qty 1 - DUST SEAL, STEERING HEAD 53214-371-010

3. Qty 1 - BEARING, HEAD PIPE (UPPER) (KOYO) 91015-KT8-005

4. Qty 1 - BEARING, HEAD PIPE (LOWER) (KOYO) 91016-KT8-005

5. Qty 2 - DUST SEAL (17X24X5) (ARAI) 91262-KV3-831

6. Qty 1 - BEARING, NEEDLE 91071-MR7-003

7. Qty 1 - DUST SEAL (28X37X4) 91202-MR7-003

8. Qty 2 - BEARING, RADIAL BALL (20X37X9) 91072-MR7-003

9. Qty 1 - CIRCLIP, INNER (37MM) 94520-37000

10. Qty 1 - DUST SEAL (26X37X5) 91214-MR7-003




Customer Signature:__________________________________

 

I've found that these types of jobs are usually one of two types of customer. It's either some hoosier who thinks it's a hundred dollar job that you'll never hear from again, or it's a criminal/drug dealer who'll pay cash on the spot for just about whatever you propose.

 

I totally get wanting to make an extra buck and I can't hate on you for that, but you have to know what's coming.

There are a lot of guys on here who make a living working on bikes who are not going to be amused.

 

I get it and I appreciate the heads up. Unfortunately in the south Chicagoland area motorcycle shops are few and far between these days. Folks really don't have many choices here to get their bikes worked on.

 

Huh? Are you saying he's taking money away from people?

 

You're going to charge extra for forks, shock and chain R&R when you already have them off for the frame swap? Maybe he's a big enough sucker to go for that but probably not.

 

There's too many unknowns. $500 for the frame swap. After that we are outside that original scope of work. But a very good point... But then I have a motorcycle sitting around in 10,000 pieces waiting for a forks and shock to be rebuilt.

 

Seems to be the case all over. My friends who are in the business struggle to find mechanics also.

I get pretty butthurt when people do side work in my industry. If you posted about installing furnaces on the side I'd probably bust your balls.

 

This is all I really know...

 

Have a helluva time hooking up the plenum with the furnce tipped over...

 

$500 is dealership price at their labor rate, I can do that frame swap in an afternoon. But if he'll pay that much, more power to you.

 

R&R isnt rebuilding. Removing those things is necessary for a frame swap so the extra money to remove and replace seems unnecessary.

 

I'm always up front with people as far as a cost estimate. I get alot of old, like 80's era, bikes brought in that they bought for 200 thinking they're going to throw another 2-300 into it and have a cheap bike cause all it needs is to get it running. They don't see the cracked sidewalls, the leaking fork seals that have pissed all over the front pads, the chain that's pure rust etc. Tell them yeah I can get it running and safe to ride and pass inspection but you're looking at a thousand bucks or so. Some do it, some don't but at least they don't get any surprises on the bill when it's done.

 

I cant see how $500 for a complete frame sawp is even that expensive. I figured if you went to a stealership for that kind of work it would be at least a grand.

 

I work for 30 bucks an hour in the garage. Whoever says they can do a complete disassemble and frame swap in an afternoon all by themselves is full of shit. I'm talking COMPLETE. Complete disassemble and complete reassemble. And that is bearing no issues. You could run into some stupid issue that could throw the whole project sideways.

 

This is why I never do side jobs. Seems 'ol Murphy always pokes his head out no matter how easy the job should be.

I don't think $500 is too much, I'd just structure the pricing a bit different as some of those things overlap and will cause the customer to question you and wether they are getting taken for a ride. Hell I'd charge at least double but when people ask me to do side work I tell them I charge more than the dealer.

 

Nope, I'm not full of shit, I'm just an experienced mechanic.

 

The only disagreement I would have is if you were a Honda tech at a Honda dealership. Then, you're taking money from your employer and should be fired. But you're not...

I wouldn't disagree with any of the W/O.
Forks? Top clamp, clip-ons, steering head nut, drop the whole assembly.
Shock? Stays mounted to swingarm/linkage.
If the forks/shock need seals, that's complete R/R and a charge for that service is incurred.
Chain? Can be R/R with the swingarm, but does it need a new one? Charge for cut/rivet/adjust.

While I don't see any discrepancies, the list could grow a lot in both parts and service if the customer actually wanted to ride away with it.
Will it need intake boots? Probably.
Header gaskets? Those, too.
Spark plug boots? ...
Throttle/clutch cables cleaned and lubed?
Shift linkage, pegs and levers pivots cleaned and lubed?
Suspension linkage bearings? Replaced or just clean and lube?
Calipers frozen?
Clutch frozen? Need plates?
Electrical??? There's two hours without even looking at it.

It's good you spelled out what you were doing and what you were not doing. $500 is more than reasonable to swap out the frame and nothing else...but I, personally, would need assurance there was nothing illicit going on - proof of ownership, or something.

Two days is comfortable. One day is doable, barring no issues with fasteners, 4 hours even.

 

If you're a flat rate guy, you either do it in an afternoon or you go hungry. There's lots of corners cut, lots of tricks. You would probably clean everything and do a more thorough job in your garage. When you work flat rate, you just get the job done. If there's rust or dirt, you typically just ignore it, not your problem. Some guys do it with more care then others, but you get paid more hours to get each job done quickly. No offense to either one of you guys, grasshopper or slider82.

 

I don't know why you're putting it all on paper in that much detail. The customer doesn't need to know all that shit unless they specifically ask. You're overwhelming him. I do side work all the time, from tire changes to frame up restos and customs. My standard line is they pay for parts, labor is $50 an hour, I think this will take X amount of hours. Parts cost and 1/2 the labor up front. I spent waay to much time doing jobs that I basically made a dollar an hour on. The only exception is for my HD friends who come by for oil and tire changes. I know how long it'll take me to knock those out so that's flat rate. Some of your pricing seems a little weird to me. $500 for a complete frame swap? Sure I think that's in line. But if it takes you 16 hours you might wanna sober up and try again. But, then $200 for fork and shock removal? That's way high. That's a 30 minute job.

What's with farming out the fork seals, btw? Unless the 900rr has something special I'm not remembering, the only special tools you need is a seal driver and a long shaft allen socket.