MotoAmerica | Ridge Motorsports Park | June 23 - 25

They should show up with handlbars with bullhorns at the end

 

He wasn't saying how to enforce the current rule, he was offering a proposed updated rule to be even MORE in line with the flavor of the class.

 

Here are my take aways from having finally watched all of the races:

I really want to like the BTR class, but just can't. It is slow, boring and not a watchable caliber of racing. I'd rather watch the Grom races at a club weekend. They don't belong at a pro event.

The Twins cup is good racing and I hope that somebody can come along to challenge Rocco. As much as I would like to see him in Supersport or STK1000, this is a good opportunity for him to show his maturity and professionalism.

I like the Hooligans and think it could develop into a good steppingstone class for MA. I think it should run every weekend.

Superstock should take a good look at rebalancing the next gen bikes, again. I think that Hayes and Mesa are really having to over ride their 600s to be competetive. The R6 is supposed to be the benchmark and it currently is the underdog. I believe that if Hayes and Mesa were on GSXR 750s, Fores would not be running away with it.

I really like the parity that we are seeing in superbike with the various combinations of bikes and riders. 4 different brands in the top 4 positions was cool. I am liking Herrin a little more after this weekend. Escalante is coming on strong. Corey Alexander is stepping up. I think on any given weekend there are about 5 guys that could win one, with Gagne, Beaubier and Herrin having the best shots but given the right circumstances I wouldn't be surprised to see Escalante, Jacobsen, Scholtz, Peterson or Alexander on the podium. That is a bunch of talent.


Stk 1000 should be at every event. They really add to the field for the superbike race. They are also a place for the local fast guys to showcase against the best. Jr Cup does not need to exist at the pro level. Hone your skills at club events and debut at the pro level in twins.

A good pro event would have Twins, Supersport, Hooligans, Stk 1000 and Superbike. The baggers have their place and should have a race at the big events like Daytona, RA, Barber, Laguna and NJ.


Just my observations and opinion.

 

Hard to tell from that photo what is Dash and what is Top Triple Clamp///(Not Bar Mounts)..(top plane of the upper triple clamp)...it looks very close.
Is it the top "End" of the bar or the bottom "end" of the bar..ambiguous at best.

Next race, it would be "above" by 1.5mm max.

 

You are right, word is its a multi year deal!

 

That's the factory Indian team. Roland's team is seperate with Bobby Fong and Kyle Ohnsorg riding for his team.

I remember the MA feed showing the factory bikes sitting on pit road during qualifying and I said to myself that those bars looked very low. I almost thought they were riser clipons.

I wonder why the Saddlemen team protested the team on Sunday and not Saturday.

 

maybe Saddlemen has the AARP marketing covered and they don’t want Indian horning in on their geriatric customers flaunting JM99’s win at 60 years old

 

A couple of paragraphs relating abilities about the second place guy, while ignoring the winner.
That’s butt hurt on a GRAND scale.
Anybody privy to the dirty laundry ?

 

thank you. that explained it very well. i've always wondered why this track tends to be a crash fest

 

I've posted about this before but the MA balancing takes corner speed and corner exit acceleration into account. They also take individual rider performance into account, at least by the rule book, but since there's no other Ducatis I don't know how they are doing that.

@418 you realize we could make the same argument about Rocco / Robem- but the truth is that kid just has something special, and he's very hard to beat.

Now for the meat and potatoes-

My mechanic built and tuned a V2 for the MA D200 this year. It made 155 in race trim, and with the Mektronic ECU and MA flash it made 130. This is on the same dyno that my '13 R6 with '08 stacks (very close to the Graves stacks) made 126. I don't know how much the porting is worth on the R6, but I'm guessing they are damn close. And as JH4 has demonstrated on many occasions, the R6 has a corner speed advantage.

So by the numbers, the balancing is pretty dang close.

 

How can you say that lower bars are not a performance advantage? Not performance in powerplant / chassis setup but definitely a performance advantage for the rider for certain reasons...IE body position, aero dynamics (ability to get lower, easier), rider preference for being able to ride the bike more efficient... You've been in this game long enough to know that a performance advantage isn't just the engine / suspension / chassis... Aerodynamics and body positioning are definitely a performance advantage.

Now I agree whole heartedly that the protest and their penalty was petty but rules are rules. If the book says the bars can't be below the top plane of the triple that is pretty clear cut. That means if a cunt hair of the bar end is below the top of the triple clamp they are not legal. So people can bitch and moan and say how petty it is for the other team to protest but when it boils down to it the Indian was not legal.

The funny part about it is how bad McWilliams is bitching about it on Twitter and how his followers are bashing Harley. Rules are rules girls! Don't get your panties too much in a bunch.

https://twitter.com/mcwill99/status...QlK67tqUCWz_sm9RjnMcFtYX8psuXUxoTxZd2RdWOIu8Y

And what is the payout difference in that class between 4th place and 2nd?

 

I'm half tempted to remind the Harley haters in that thread that the HD has to be choked down with a restrictor plate setup to keep from clowning on the Indian...

At the end of the day, his anger is misdirected, he should be pissed at his team for letting him out with that setup, not HD for filing a valid protest.

 

He's threatening to retire lmao, I do love how he is @ing harley tho.

 

I mean, if anything shouldn't he direct some of his anger to the team? If it were an honest mistake, then both bikes wouldn't have been illegal.

Just admit that you got busted and move on. As big a lead they had, they can adjust the bars a little....

 

the only flaw i find in your argument, and i very well could be wrong.. is the depth of field in the supersport class vs the twins class. Rocco clearly has an advantage over the twins riders, but this not a field of accomplished, and experienced professional racers as compared to the SS class ? again. could be wrong.

 

I did it for you

 

Along those lines, why would it be called out, specifically, in the rules if it wasn't a performance affecting thing?

 

The rule covers two goals - Performance AND Aesthetics. This class is aiming for a specific look too, without defining bar height in some way, instead of clip ons you'd have clubmans all over the place making the bikes look more like cafe racers.

 

All great points and well put…

to me there are two factions of the issue as I’ve been the rider and the team owner in many scenarios.

again as a rider… I want to win on my merits on the track, and as I said wouldn’t want to win that way but wouldn’t withdraw from the win either, which seems similar to Andy’s take from his posts

From the technical advantage side it’s ridiculous and a stupid rule, I understand the spirit of it(like pikes peak outlawing clip ons for guys to just mount bars on top of triples on Superbikes) but there is nothing keeping riders from holding the fork leg flat track style instead of the handlebars.

the fact that a factory team got caught out on something is on them and looks horrible. I’ve never cheated or ridden something not legal but that’s me.

I hope KTM puts Andy on every ad for that bike with his win. And as a team owner and certainly a manufacturer I’d damn sure do the same….

but… the lower bars absolutely did not win that race or the day before… they want a parade of layman’s bikes out there and have a few big efforts and one factory stomping the field… if you’re that team you’d damn sure be legal you’d think…

 

I was going to reference the grabbing a fork tube flat track style too... I agree with everything you are saying. And the fact is the bar being a little below the top of the clamp is not going to give much if any performance advantage but rules are rules as petty as some may be.