It ain't cheating til you get caught -VW Diesels

What expertise do i need to realize that pulling perfectly good running newer vehicles off the roads to be replaced by newly built vehicles has a carbon and pollution foot print? Are you pulling 1970's gas guzzling boats off the road and replacing them with much more efficient vehicles? No.

Fact is, and you are an idiot if you even try to dispute this, same vehicle size, same engine displacement and power, a diesel vehicle with beat out a conventional gasoline burning model. Just for shits and giggles i just googled 2013 jetta line up comparession. Guess what? The TDI at 39mpg beat out the hybrid, the 2.0Turbo, the base model 2.slow and the 2.5. In fact, the closest comparable model to the diesels power would be the 2.5, which got 26mpgs....2/3's the mileage. So driving down the road, both vehicles covering the same distance, the 2.5 will emit a third more carbon than the diesel....hows that better for the enviroment?!?!?

My CRD Grand Cherokee Jeep gets 28mpgs, A comparable Hemi powered Grand Cherokee is lucky to break 16mpg. Does my Jeep emit more NOX? Yes, does it emit more Carbon? Hell no....and if carbon is the evil that everyone is making it out to be. My Jeep emits almost half the carbon emissions for the same covered distance.

This is nothing more than political. Simple as that.

 

The problem is EPA doesn't take distance/mpg into the equation. It kind of matters because they certify the engine and an engine can be used in a nice aerodynamic car or a brick of an SUV. NOx is a much bigger polluter than carbon. A lot of making them replace everything is punitive as well, they are going to spend 10s of Billions fixing this crap on top of the fines and prosecution of those involved. It's a way of saying don't do it to begin with.

 

That is just idiotic...

 

Government. 'Nuff said.

 

WTF? The Gen 2 (2012-2014 Passat) fix was just approved, but for automatics only - people like yours truly with manuals (or "manuels" per the Craigslist spelling) are left hanging. Ugh, if there's no fix then I guess a CX-9 will have to do.........

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/docs/emissions/Final_2L _Gen2_Automatic_Approval.pdf

 

The 2015 new TDIs are going for about $8k off sticker and with the 0% for 72 months financing. Wish I had a spot for one.

 

It's now possible to start the claims process for 3.0 liter engines. Not sure I want to give up that car.

 

You don't have to. Take the money to make up for the depreciation hit and keep it.

 

Depends which 3 liter you have.

 

Here's the fix for the Gen 2 Passats - as expected, software only and the main difference from an owner's perspective is that the adblue rate is essentially doubled.

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/e...ssions_Modification_Disclosure_Volkswagen.pdf

 

So you could lose up to 1mpg! Holy shit! Burn it all down!!!!!!!11!!!11!

 

Someone oughta sue.

 

Local dealer has 50 2015 TDIs. They are listed on cars.com since legally the dealer can't listed them on their dealer website per salesperson. According to the cars.com ad they are asking MSRP, ~$26K for the 2015 Jetta SE TDI. The one I was asking about had 3,700 miles and was listed as "NEW". Salesperson claimed that was new and that they sold 25 cars recently and just ordered as many more. Claims that VW is offering $5K mfg rebate. ~$26K is what I remember them going for pre-Dieselgate. I'm not a buyer at $21K after rebate. Will keep driving my 06 Jetta TDI I got to replace my 12 Passat TDI I sold back.

 

yeah 5k is the mfg rebate, but some dealers are sweetening the offer.

 

Actually that is only phase 1 of the fix. My VW salesman says that there's a fix for the engine, a software update, but there will also be another 'fix' added to the mix within the next 12 months. He wasn't sure yet what that will entail, but he says there is a 2-part fix for these engines, and they're doing part 1 now.

 

You sure he was talking about the Gen 2 (Passat 2012-2014) and not the Gen 3 (all 2015+) cars? The Gen 3 have the exact setup that you've described - software now and hardware in ~12 months.

Being stuck in limbo for us 6MT Gen 2 drivers sucks balls.............

 

Your argument aside this is a phenomenal way to start expressing your beliefs. I'm sure you will go far in life with this approach to presenting "facts".

I will say that what follows the .... is so vague it would be impossible to dispute as there aren't enough facts to discuss. "same vehicle size, same engine displacement and power, a diesel vehicle with beat out a conventional gasoline burning model" Beat out in what way? emissions, fuel economy, drivability. If emissions which, NO NO2, N2O, NH3, CO, THC, CO2, PM? When you say same power, do you mean the peak or the full shape of the power/torque curve? What is your drive cycle and where are you spending most of your time along the RPM/Throttle map? What is the shape of the vehicle? What are the environmental conditions, what grade of gasoline etc? etc? Talking in absolutes is what is idiotic.

As for the "fixes", I find it interesting that simply doubling the urea would solve the problem. Seems like an awful big risk to take to knowingly disobey many countries pollution laws just to save on some pig piss. There is some storage and release capabilities of the SCRs, but ideally you never exceed 1:1 NH3 to NOx ratio. Going higher risks the release of NH3. VW would have to have an ammonia scrubber catalyst, and likely does, for this to have a chance, but they would also have had to had a very large safety factor on the performance of that catalyst to deal with the added NH3. Maybe German cars are over engineered.

I did see an article that CARB is forcing VW to offer 3 new all electric vehicles in Cali by 2019. One of which is required to be an SUV. They also have to sell 35K vehicle by 2025. That's a pretty big hill to climb. Might be able to get some decent deals on these vehicles in 2024 if they are not near the 35K mark.

 

My salesman at the V-dub place is pretty straight-up with me, I've bought 4 cars from him, so he usually tells me stuff before everyone else hears about it. He even recommended me selling my 14 Passat back, and I ended up getting $1,000 more for it than I originally paid for it, after driving it 36,000 miles. He swears there is a 'Fix 2.0" for the 2.0 engines coming out next year. The current fix is just stage 1.0.

 

The doubling of urea doesn't bring these cars into compliance with the original standards; it (along with some other modifications outlined above) brings these cars into compliance with the relaxed standards negotiated between VW and EPA/Carb after Dieselgate broke.