How big of a difference do tire warmers really make?

OK so I've been out of roadracing this millennium and now that my kids are out of the house I have some time to get back into it. I raced about 5 years pretty seriously in the 90s and hardly anyone had tire warmers, at least at regional races. I've done a few track days and noticed its at least 50% of people using warmers. It seemed ridiculous to me to have warmers for track days but people claim the warmers help extend the life of the tires by reducing the number of heat cycles the tires go through during the day. I don't know about that but I guess I'm willing to be convinced. Personally for a track day I don't mind taking it easy the first couple laps in each session and I'd much rather do that than deal with warmers and a generator.

But... I may do some races next year and I'm wondering how much difference I'll notice on the first lap or 2 with warmers vs. just trying to get heat into the tires on the warm-up lap. I'll likely be running soft compound slicks on a lightweight bike (Kramer). I don't know much about modern tires (other than they seem world's better than what I rode on back in the day of course) and their ideal operating temps, how quickly they get up to temp, etc. Obviously YMMV depending on the weather, the track surface etc, but in general are guys without warmers at a significant disadvantage in an 8 lap sprint race? I'd imagine the mental advantage of "My tires are already warm so I'm hammering it into turn 1!" is a consideration, but wondering if anyone knows how real the performance difference actually is after you've ridden thru the pits out to the track, run a warm-up lap and sat on the grid until the green flag?

Thanks for the info!

 

Paging @VFR#52

 

Coming off warmers the entire carcass of the tire is hot/warm. You aren't going to get that kind of heat generated with your warm up lap. It will also take longer to get heat into a slick without warmers. You will be at a disadvantage in a sprint race for sure imo. The few times I've gridded up with someone else that I knew wasn't on warmers I felt more than confident sending it past them into t1. They know and I know their tires arent hot

 

who races w/o warmers besides @VFR#52 ?

Im amused at the TDwinners running warmers in the beginner & middle group when they arent hitting apexes or reference points with any degree of precision. I giggle when they are on DOTs and must bake their tires for 1hr prior... but the engine is ice cold...lol

That said warmers can help if youre trying to push a pace and get max life out of your tires. Be sure the power source is sufficient and check your pressures. Always bleed down to the desired psi.

 

If you have a very competitive bike like a Kramer I would 100% invest in tire warmers and a generator. This year 2 of my teammates went down on the warm up lap and lap 1 because their generator or warmer failed and they had to go out on cold tire(s). If you save ONE crash because of warmers you have paid for them

 

It’s a significant safety concern by not running warmers when racing

I second this after having warmers fail and cause a first lap crash!

 

Yes I've been known to crash on a warm up lap trying my best to get as much heat as possible into the tires. Talk about humiliating. But at least it was at the GNF so I had all winter to fix the bike...

And really its not the cost of the tire warmers I'm trying to justify - its more the pain in the butt of yet another thing to deal with.

 

Just get yourself a pit bitch and be done with it. Have your friends, kids, cousins, spouse/significant other take care of the warmers for you and you can focus on bike setup and racing.

 

Good idea on the pit bitch but I'm old, so they'll already be dealing with my diapers, my walker, chewing up my granola since I won't know where I left my teeth and the TV/VCR combo always needs attention so I can watch Matlock episodes between races, so I don't want to overwhelm them.

 

Tire warmers also let you set the tire pressures more consistently before you go out. Most tire vendor recommended pressures for race tires will be hot pressures. Good luck translating that to cold pressures. It can be done more or less, but it becomes one more thing to worry about. Cold tearing tires or worse crashing because the pressures are wrong will get expensive.

 

I'm sure a lot of people here have had a warmer fail and/or forgot to plug one in, then raced. I've done it. It was terrible. The tire pressure was off. The warm-up lap was slow instead of pushing hard to also mentally warm-up. The tires were mushy for the warm-up and first lap because there wasn't enough heat to increase the pressure. I lost seconds in the first lap. Warming up tires is a skill that I have, but it can't be done enough with a single warm-up lap.

+1 to 2blueYam. Setting tire pressures with a reasonably consistent temperature is one of the best parts about warmers.

I use warmers at trackdays because I don't want to waste any part of the day. Because I use warmers, I can run hard in the first session of most days. I can push on the first lap. Its hard enough to find clean laps at trackdays. It would absolutely suck to find empty space on that first lap and not be able to push because I didn't use warmers. I can also get in good laps on cold and/or windy days - days when anyone without warmers should probably just stay home.

 

Race tires these days are much more sensitive to temperature and pressure. 1 cold tire crash and you'll already be in to repairs worth more than a set of warmers.

 

1 - Your tires are up to temp right from the jump. No need to worry about warming them up
2 - You can have more consistent control of monitoring your tire pressures.
3 - Your tires will last longer by not being subjected to multiple heat cycles throughout the day.

win/win/win

 

I see this mentioned a lot, and it always confuses me. I'm shocked a dude can put their bike in a van, truck or trailer and drive it hours to a race track, get up at 6am and do motorcycle things all day, but then decide that 30 seconds of putting warmers on and taking warmers off is the part about all this that's a pain in the ass.

In the course of a track day, you'll lose more time going slow on first session laps then you would dealing with warmers.

Here's your answer: hot tires are better than cold tires in every way at the track. You get repeatable results as far as tire pressures go and as far as racing goes, it's a no brainer for safety.

 

All of the above, plus,

One thing I learned running a tire pressure monitoring system on my SV650 racebike, is just how long it can take to really get a tire up to temp/pressure. I went to go out for a trackday session and noticed that I'd accidentally switched off my rear warmer. So front tire hot, rear tire cold. It was mid-morning so not hot out, but not too cold.
I went out and kept an eye on the TPMS. It felt OK after two laps, but it took the whole session, ten whole laps at Sonoma Raceway, for the tire to reach full hot pressure. So basically every single lap you do on a cold tire, the tire pressure is changing. Once you get your hot pressures dialed in, they will be much more consistent from lap to lap.

Also I can clearly see what the real pros always say, on a cold morning you can't go out there and tip toe around or you will be losing heat faster than you can gain it, the cold pavement sucks the heat right out of your tires. You must go hard on the gas and brakes while being careful of too much lean angle, abrupt inputs, painted curbs, etc.

Also I hear people say I don't need warmers today because it's hot out, or I just park in the sun. Sure 90 or 70 degrees is warmer than 50 degrees, but it sure isn't 185 degrees.

One more thing. Often someone will offer to help me with the stands and warmers, I almost always politely decline. It's part of my process, every time I put the warmers on I spin the tire, brush any debris off, take a look at the tire wear, etc. plus I'll notice if the brakes are dragging or the chain sounds funny or whatever. Plus I don't mess up my warmers and my stands are always in the right places when I come back in!

 

Ok y'all have convinced me! Especially the TPMS info, that's a pretty convincing argument that it takes a long time to properly heat up modern race tires without warmers. And if the tires are designed to work best around 180F, then it's stupid to spend most or all of a sprint race at too low of a temp.

Thanks for helping me crawl out of the Stone Age!

 

Look i see i, still the lone nutt job who refuses to use tire warmers.
Unlike most people i have spent plenty of time learning how cold tires work and feel in all kinds of weather.
I know what pressure rise you have from cold to track warm and out of 31 yrs of racing ive high sided once on 1st lap of a race 1997. i was leading though. LOL
New rear tire and totally different brand so all my own doing.
Its still hanging on shelf to this day.
Now i do leave my bike in the sun to warm tires up just so people can watch me move them back and forth. LOL
If your not confident not using warmers then dont do it.
I love the BS about making tires last longer. ITS BS i run my tires longer than most and always have.
Now im not as fast as i once was but im still competitive in V7 classes in vintage.
Ive raced in 40 degree weather before and maybe im slow enough not to crash.
Ive also run the 4 major tire brands all the same results for me.
Ive never claimed to be the smartest racer but i have had success with my way of doing this so im not going to change.
And as far as i can tell im not loosing races because i dont have warmers.
Also i dont want to drag all the crap it takes to use warmers.
Id rather have a big ass Fan for me and family.
This yr i had some health issues that prevented me from racing.
But working that out i will be back next yr racing if im alive and healthy.
Any Questions just PM and of course im sure i will get the doubters so flame away and we can all laugh at me.
Take care.

Steven AKA VFR # 52

 

I've talked myself out of warmers for track days because I talk to people on street tires (Q4s and etc) that say "they're still not 100% on the first lap"

If I have to burn up a lap getting (street tires) tires to temp, at least I'm not dealing with the hassle. Crap, I might have to try this out.

 

Race tires might not be 100% at warmer temp, but they are sure a lot closer than without warmers. And they are definitely closer to 100% at warmer temp than someone without warmers after a lap or two. Plus racers have a lot more skill and confidence to get the tires to 100% within corners, not laps.

A trackday rider in B-group without warmers on street tires is hardly comparable to a racer heading out for the last 10min of qualifying. On all the but the hottest days, the trackday rider will barely get their tires up to warmer temp (185F). If they were using warmers, they'd lose temp on the first lap and never gain it all back. The racer is pushing within the first few corners to get the tires hotter still, so they have optimal grip by the start of the first flying lap. The B rider sits at pit-out for 5 minutes with the wind sucking out tons of heat. The racer gets on track ASAP. The B rider "waits for their tires to come up to temp". The racer creates tire heat with gobs of throttle and brake, significantly more than the B rider at their fastest. The two situations are miles apart when it comes to tire use.

 

I would say there's a difference between street/sport tires like the Q4 and proper DOT race or slick tires. Q4's are designed to go through numerous heat cycles without outgassing as severely as race tires. They are also designed to work in broader temperature range than proper race tires.

Even for trackdays (if you're running race/DOT tires) the benefits of running the tires through less heat cycles makes it worthwhile. Think about it, you do 7 to 8 sessions throughout a day without warmers (and you're using race tires) that's 7/8 heat cycles the tires have been subjected to, rather than 1 single heat cycle if you use warmers all day and keep them at a consistent temperature all day.