Hey pilots, what about this latest plane crash?

Above 30k ft, if cabin altitude reaches 14.5k ft the autopilot will automatically bank the aircraft 90° and start a descent to 15k ft. Pilot is directed to retard throttles, gear down, and extend speed brakes. If the pilot is unconscious and unable to perform those tasks the a/c will just not descend as rapidly.

 

Turn 90, not bank 90. Big difference

 

I spent a minute wondering what that would accomplish.

 

It'll descend faster with no lift.

-jim

 

Yeah, sorry. Bank 90 would really get the pilots attention.

 

I hope it turns out his hesitation to break thru the descent restriction isn't what killed them.

If he was loosing cabin pressure he should have declared and kept going down. Or maybe he was on the mask but wasn't getting flow.

Steve do those quick dons in the Mirage or TBM types flow automatically when you pull them off the mount?

Should ATC have been more proactive in asking if he needed to declare or ???? Sometimes a prompt from the outside might be a good thing.

 

Declaring an emergency is solely on the pilot. The controller has no idea what's going on in that aircraft outside of what is communicated him directly and what he sees on his scope. The first communication in the recording doesn't in anyway indicate a dire emergency. "Faulty indication" could be anything. It's easy to see now that it was a very serious situation, but with the info available at the time to the controller he did exactly what he was supposed to do and what the pilot requested.

 

Very sad. I was driving to PIRC when my girlfriend got an alert from CNN about F-16's following a plane. Rochester is about 30 mins from where I live. RIP and prayers to the family

 

And it still hasn't been found. Rough for the family.

 

In the TBM they should just work. The masks are really a clever design from EROS. They are mounted upside down on the opposite side of the cockpit. You can pull it out with one hand and then you squeeze two little tabs to put it on. The straps that hold it on are actually hoses that expand when inflated. So when you press those tabs the hoses inflate and make a big basket that you put over your head with the mask lined up on your nose and mouth. When you let go of the tabs the hoses constrict and the mask sucks to your face like an octopus. It can be done really fast. There is a youtube video if you want to see how it works.

There are two ways the oxygen system could be off. There is a valve on the oxygen tank that can only be turned on or off from the outside of the airplane. It is a normal preflight check to make sure the valve is on. Also, you will get a message on the CAS (crew alert system) if the valve is off. Then there is an overhead switch to turn the oxygen on to the masks. It is supposed to be on for every flight and is on the before takeoff checklist. Even if you forgot to turn that one on it would be pretty obvious and easily corrected in the moment. Also, it is on the before takeoff checklist to check the masks before every flight. You press a little valve and hear a wooshing sound to make sure oxygen is going to the masks.

The Mirage is different. It has oxygen generators instead of an oxygen tank (Valujet anyone?). The Mirage only goes to 25,000 feet and most don't even fly it that high so it's not nearly as much of an issue. The generator is like a little grande that chemically generates oxygen. It has a firing pin that starts the process. You know when the stewardess tells you to pull on the line if your mask falls from the ceiling on an airliner? That's what you are doing. You are pulling a pin that lets the firing pin go and starts the oxygen generator.

 

From what you posted, sounds pretty straight-forward. However, if fronts seats (I still don't know if it was just him and his wife or if there was anyone else on board) are oxygen deprived, maybe it isn't as simple as you make it sound.
We'll never know if the plane only being 6 months old had anything to do with what happened.
Hard to believe they still can't find the plane.

 

I don't understand.

 

Front seats = pilot/co-pilot.

The F-15 pilot said he could see the pilot slumped over. He also said he could see the pilot's chest rising and falling. I don't recall reading anything where it says if he did or didn't have a mask on.

"Even if you forgot to turn that one on it would be pretty obvious and easily corrected in the moment." This is what I was questioning...although it would be pretty obvious and easily corrected, hypoxia might not make it so obvious or easily corrected.

 

Not in small planes, it's entirely possible that the person in the right seat could be an inexperienced passenger. However, that doesn't really have anything to do with this accident I don't think, as I know I've read somewhere else and I think Steve even stated as much that his wife is an experienced pilot as well.

 

Possibly, but I think it's a big stretch to say that. If you are coherent enough to grab the mask, you will not be able to put it on without oxygen going to it. The oxygen inflating the hoses/straps is what allows it to be put on. The switch is in easy reach and is the obvious solution to no oxygen going to the mask.

I believe the fighter pilots said that Larry did not have his mask on.

 

Thanks for the info Steve. Havent had the pleasure of burning kerosene myself yet so I don't know the systems.

Seems odd they would notice an issue, try to come down, not declare or mask.

If it was a solo flight you would think medical incapacitation. But there was 2 of them.

Maybe they didn't see the cabin altitude until to hypoxic and couldn't mentally get it figured out.

Either way sad to here.

 

While true, when I was a controller at LA Center, if a pilot ever told me he had something out of the ordinary going on, my FIRST question was always if he was declaring an emergency. Simple reason being I wanted to be aware if I had to start moving people out of the way.

After listening to the audio, the controller definitely didn't pay close enough attention here. The pilot twice states "we NEED to get lower", and the controller didn't recognize there might be a problem. That was not a busy sector at all.

The pilot on the other hand, should have declared, and descended to wherever he needed to be to function. I suspect the NTSB will deem this a mechanical failure that was improperly handled by the pilot. Sucks.

 

Lear 35 (Payne Stewart's airplane) is a 2-pilot A/C last I remember. I don't believe it's certified for single-pilot operations.

 

You are correct.

 

Thanks for the insight, didn't know we had any controllers on here.

True, I'm speaking to light aircraft. There are only a couple of turbine aircraft I can think of that are single-pilot certified, Mustang and I think the Phenom 100, Eclipse 550 (is it even fully certified yet?) etc.