Guess the ATF is not all bad....

Thanks Dutch. I have the form, and there is a space which says FFL number (if any). It also has a space for employer ID number, and class. Glad they made it all self-explanatory.

 

Meanwhile, back at the lab.. after no stamp, no $200 tax, no 6-12 month wait, no finger printing, no background check, and no registration. The ONLY difference is the stoc..um..er..brace..instead of a stock. All 100% legal.




The end

 

You sure its 100% legal?

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/04/041006-openletter-nfa-adding-vertical-fore-grip.html

Vertical foregrip on a "pistol" is not legal without a tax stamp.

 

This has been debated for what seems forever at AR15.com. But it appears to be a well known fact(at least over there haha), that if its over 26" in OAL, your good to go. From the ruling toward Franklin Armory.. It states as long as it wasn't concealed AND not shorter then 26", your good to go(page 2 in below doc). After it exceeds 26" and a VFG is added, its no longer a "pistol".

http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf

I'm not even sure I like a VFG. JUST put it on there to try it out.

Also stated by the ATF on this memo. Very last question and answer...


A short recent thread.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/641704_I_keep_seeing_26_OAL__have_a_question_.html

 

The FFL number is from the selling dealer I believe. Employer ID I think is their tax number and class. Yeah, they sure make it intuitive. If you are starting with a blank lower and building your own it has to have been manufactured and registered as an SBR lower. If not you can have it engraved with your name and city and state of residence, take pics of the engraving and lower, and send it in along with the application. If you are buying a complete rifle the dealer you are getting it from should be able to walk you through the process as well as give you any local tips like which Sherriff is gun friendly and which one isn't.

 

Did you buy the Sig brace in FDE or have it coated? If you bought it in FDE where did you get it from? Thanks

 

haha neither. Thats Brownells Coyote Brown paint(which happens to be almost exactly like FDE). I guess i'll see how well it does.

But the FDE can be found here...(6 avail currently)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PSB-AR-FDE-...d=100010&prg=9409&rk=2&rkt=24&sd=201059845392

Heres a pic from AR15.com Pistol forum. looks a bit off from the Magpul FDE. I think the flash/angle/etc has something to do with it tho.


Meanwhile... After painting it, I slid it onto a door knob..and goofed the paint up a bit where the arm would go thru. Otherwise its been pretty tough. This was taken 5 minutes ago. Decided I didn't like the Magpul hand guard and VFG. The flash makes it look lighter then it really is.

 

SBR needs a tax stamp on the lower.
This assumes your state allows SBRs.
Oregon does, Washington State doesn't.

You would need to file paperwork with your FFL (Class III) the same as you would for a suppressor. Wait for the ATF to approve, then go get the lower and build it.

The SBR is my next toy, after I get my 9mm suppressor.

Here's the current AR Pistol.


12" barrel.

 

You should get rid of the vertical fore-grip.
That's not kosher.
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/04/041006-openletter-nfa-adding-vertical-fore-grip.html

There were people putting a vertical fore grip on one of the revolver variants in California to use the federal AOW to get around the state b.s. of prohibiting the specific gun.

 

Another dumb question, but does your lower have to be purchased/registered as a pistol to use this stabilizer brace? If I purchase a new lower as an AR-15 pistol, can I then build it up with an upper of less than 16" without doing the required BATFE SBR form and stamp? If so, can I not put a stock and fore grip on it?

 

For discussion: Pistol is less than a 16" overall length barrel or barrel/pinned hider/compensator.

At the moment, it's my understanding that if the lower is bought as a pistol or not specified as a rifle, you can:

1) Make it into a pistol with the stabilizer brace.
2) Make it into a pistol with no brace (just the buffer tube, like I did above).
3) Make it into a rifle, but then you technically can't convert it back to a pistol later.

To my knowledge you can-not
1) Use a stock on a pistol, because then it would an SBR ($200 stamp)
2) Use a vertical foregrip, because then it would be an Any Other Weapon (AOW - $5 stamp).

So, you can use the stabilizer, just don't add the vertical foregrip.

 

Time to move this to general.

 

See what I mean? What a bunch of BS, trying to make sense of their BS regs. Not infringed?

 

I don't see where any of the above posts contradict each other. In fact several of them say the same thing in a different manner. The only issue that is confusing is the use of a vertical pistol grip on an AR Pistol and at what length using one will send you to FYUTA Federal Prison for 10 years.

 

Seems to me if you take the VFG off a "braced pistol" longer than 26", that would be a big no-no. Because then you are going from "firearm" back to "pistol." Right?

 

Not saying there is a contradiction. Those posts very helpful. What I am saying is that it is pretty f'n stupid that we are having to discuss the minor differences between a "legal" pistol and an sbr. They are the same in every way, except in how you hold it.

 

WA does now. Gov just signed it into law. Takes effect in June.
First we got suppressors, now SBRs. I'm just a little shocked these both passed.

Either way, I'm not building an SBR when the Sig brace would fit the bill pretty well for $200 & 10months less.

Still need a suppressor though...

 

I haven't been following the WA bill that closely, but good for you all.
Brace vs. SBR: It just depends on your preferred flavor.

 

Which is why I still say fuck them. They change shit at the drop of a hat as they please. Surplus 545x39 armor piercing because it has a pubic hair worth of steel in it? GTFO


And thanks for the clarification used2b.