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George H. W. Bush funeral

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by Steeltoe, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    Because without Reagan there was no one with the goal to end it vs sustain it. Sure Russia might have collapsed still or it might have limped along until now. Either way all those who followed Reagan were the detente' mentality.
     
  2. Motofun352

    Motofun352 Well-Known Member

    RR had the balls to push the CCCP into bankruptcy. GHWB had the smarts not to crow about it. Both actions have been borne out to be proper. I believe that the DJT's actions on the world stage will ultimately be proven to be correct and 30 years from now my kids will be looking back on today with pride. If you remember the press mocked RR at the time...
     
  3. rd400racer

    rd400racer Well-Known Member

    Just as Russia collapsed into the Soviet Union in 1917 on its own, it collapsed again in 91 of its own accord. Communism simply didn't work and the people figured it out.

    We didn't have shit to do with it.
     
    stk0308 likes this.
  4. dsapsis

    dsapsis El Jefe de los Monos

    Don't muddy the hagiography, man. :D
     
  5. Motofun352

    Motofun352 Well-Known Member

    I think that we had quite a bit to do with it. True the system is fundamentally flawed but the arms race pushed them to the breaking point quite a bit faster. Do you really think that otherwise they wouldn't have collapsed? They were starving their own people in order to keep up. Unlike NK they couldn't get away with it. Star wars was a genius ploy.
     
    sheepofblue likes this.
  6. rd400racer

    rd400racer Well-Known Member

    Everything I've read stated that the USSR was simply projecting a facade to the US for as far back as the late 50's. Our intelligence attempted to relay this to the politicians but they didn't want to hear that because it would slow down the Industrial Military Complex that they were so beholden to. They were done then.

    I could go on for many paragraphs but I'm heading out for the night. My personal opinion is that the will of the Russian people accounted for 90% of the breakup. The west contributed the rest.
     
  7. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    You and a lot of people in tin foil hats :Poke:

    Communism is a flawed system but so is every other one (including capitalism). The difference is they tried to out compete the superior system and collapsed. Many inferior systems carried on far longer. The beginning of the end was when Reagan had us walk out of Iceland.
     
  8. rd400racer

    rd400racer Well-Known Member


    Nothing tin foil about it, easily researched that they were never in the game to begin with. It's just that we wouldn't/couldn't accept that. Personally I find it quite interesting that we bought in to their ruse for so long.

    No different to our paranoia over the Germans completing the atom bomb before us during WWII. They were never in the game either.
     
  9. eggfooyoung

    eggfooyoung You no eat more!

    I'm gettin that word of the day app...
     
    sheepofblue likes this.
  10. ryoung57

    ryoung57 Off his meds

    What’s going on with Bill Clinton that makes his mouth hang open like it does? That’s some sort of neurological disorder or something isn’t it?
     
  11. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Too many years married :D
     
    MachineR1 likes this.
  12. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    We did over estimate their capability but to say never in it is WAY off. Nuclear power with a large standing army. We likely gave their air force to much credit but they artillery/tank stuff was actually really good. Their subs were lacking but I think we took that into account. Also a lot of Russian tech is misunderstood as they looked at stuff from a totally different approach and in some cases a good one. Their biggest deficit is one to many here want to go to, socialism. When you are limited on the upside but not the downside you take zero chance. When pay is guaranteed quality suffers.

    EDIT: oh and 'we bought into their ruse for to long' kind of validates my point. Reagan called their bluff and they folded.
     
    rd400racer likes this.
  13. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    Mouth breather...obviously. :D
     
  14. Steeltoe

    Steeltoe What's my move?

    I wonder how the Kurds feel?
     
  15. ryoung57

    ryoung57 Off his meds

    Beyond that. I was thinking it was a real medical condition. I’ve seen it mentioned several times on the internet, discussing various times over the last 10 years, if not longer.
     
  16. Motofun352

    Motofun352 Well-Known Member

    Well, it was one hell of a facade. Their approach was quantity over quality. The whole Warsaw Pac approach was based on this. Swamp the Yankees with thousands of tanks...sure they would lose a lot but if they won, what would that matter? Their nukes weren't as accurate so they built them really big...might miss by a mile but so what. In a sense, I agree. Their "house" was built on a shaky foundation BUT it took the big bad wolf (ie RR:)) to blow it down.
     
  17. ryoung57

    ryoung57 Off his meds

    Which is ironic because we won WWII with quantity over quality, defeating the Germans whose approach was quality over quantity.
     
  18. GRH

    GRH Well-Known Member

    Got to have a boogeyman to keep the MIC going
     
    stk0308 likes this.
  19. R Acree

    R Acree Banned

    Today, you do have the advantage of hindsight.
     
  20. rd400racer

    rd400racer Well-Known Member


    Yeah, but I think the gap was much smaller in this instance. Yes, the Sherman compared to a Tiger proves your point, but the Bismark Vs the Wisconsin is much closer. Our quantity was helped greatly by the fact that we were bombing the shit out of their factories while we chugged along intact. And I believe that the engineering of Germany Vs the Allies was much closer than what the USSR was producing after WWII. The majority of Soviet system were obtained by stealing our ideas and reverse engineering them.

    The Japs on the other hand made a slew of inferior products. Most of their small arms were crap, the vaunted Zero could be easily shot down by a properly placed round in the unprotected fuel tank and their infantry based weapons were years behind us.
     

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