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Federal Judge Rules US Army to use rubber bullets in combat

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by Richard Lesher, Aug 27, 2003.

  1. Richard Lesher

    Richard Lesher Well-Known Member

  2. dtalbott

    dtalbott Driving somewhere, hauling something.

    Why does California seem to run by a bunch of flakes?
     
  3. ZebProctor1

    ZebProctor1 Well-Known Member

    Now how in the F U C K can a stupid bitch from a DISTRICT court in San Francisco tell the Navy what it can do in international waters????? What jurisdiction does a district court have over international property???? I can see her saying they can't put it right off the coast of Cali, but saying they can't in the entire pacific, WTF????? It's all good though, we know where the chinese will be landing and killing first, then they can all blame that dumb bitch.....
     
  4. mtk

    mtk All-Pro Bike Crasher

    I think a judge in a US court can tell the US Navy to do whatever she wants. That "US" prefix is all the authority she needs.

    As for the story in question, it would seem that they have a point. We know very little about marine mammal sonar, other than it's a hell of a lot more sensitive than anything we have. So there may very well be some truth to their assertions.

    Not to mention that it's not like we're at risk of Naval attack right now. There isn't a navy on earth we can't kick the crap out of with what we have on-hand right now.
     
  5. ZebProctor1

    ZebProctor1 Well-Known Member

    You're right and wrong..... there isn't a NAVY that can kick our ass, but there are hundreds of diesel subs out there on the black market that can come within a couple hundred feet of the US coast with a dirty bomb, nuke, bio/chem weapons, you name it....... so in essence we are at war, not to sound corny, but at war with terrorists......
     
  6. YAM#849

    YAM#849 y'all watch this...

    Uh, because it IS?
     
  7. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    It is, the nuts are in local government positions, the flakes are at the state level.
     
  8. mtk

    mtk All-Pro Bike Crasher

    Not with current US sonar technology, they can't. Those things are quite a few steps down from Russian nuclear subs and we have no trouble tracking them all over the globe. An old Diesel boat isn't going to present nearly as difficult a challenge.

    Not to mention piloting a submarine successfully is a little more difficult than an airliner. You can't buy Microsoft Sub Simulator (yet).
     
  9. ZebProctor1

    ZebProctor1 Well-Known Member

    Did you read the article????? And I qoute:

    The sonar "will greatly improve the Navy's ability to detect and track quiet diesel submarines, which present an increasing threat to U.S. and allied forces operating in areas of strategic interest," the Navy said.
     
  10. mtk

    mtk All-Pro Bike Crasher

    OK, but that hardly quantifies the threat. We've come to find out now that the threat of the Russian Navy was WAY overblown during the cold war and that we had no trouble tracking any of their boats all over the globe.

    A surplus Diesel sub is an old hunk that makes the Russian nuclear subs look like US Typhoon class boats. They will be no trouble to track as they are siginificantly more noisy than the nuclear subs that replaced them. Not to mention that a Diesel sub is a surface craft for the most part since it can only operate submerged for short periods of time. And also consider that the Russians have several decades of submarine R&D to apply to their designs. A new Diesel design isn't going to have access to all that technology.

    So, the "threat" is now these new, quiet Diesel submarines. Who exactly is building these boats? Who is operating them? Are any in service right now? If there are, why aren't our Los Angeles-class attack boats shadowing them right now? (The answer is, if there are any, our boats are following them everywhere they go, just like we did to the Russians.)

    Next, how does are current sonar warning nets work on these boats? We already have serious sonar technology deployed all over the globe. Can these slip past that? Somehow, I doubt it, given that the Russian nuclear boats couldn't do it.

    Finally, one must also consider that the Defense Department is a really big fan of high technology, whether needed or not. They have a long track record of spending huge sums of money on weapons programs that are completely flawed or with no actual usefulness. As long as they're high-tech and expensive, some General somwhere thinks it's a great idea.

    Given all of that, I don't have a problem shelving the Navy's new sonar technology until we get a little more data on it. Mainly because I think the threat of Abdul firing a missle of the coast of California from his Diesel submarine is miniscule, at best.
     
  11. RCjohn

    RCjohn Killin machine.

    There are some right and wrong statements being made.

    One, not all Soviet nukes were easy to track especially their Typhoons. SOSUS had trouble with them.

    Diesels are noisier when the engines are running. When the engines are off and the boats are submerged they are quieter than almost any sub(nuclear). Diesels are most definitely a threat if someone knows how to use/shield them.

    Judges can dictate certain requirements to the military. Once in international waters we just ignored them. :D

    It doesn't matter how much data you provide they will never be happy if some damn shrimp loses its hearing.

    If the Navy needs the sonar equipment then you can bet it will get this resolved eventually. If this is more of a DOD contractor trying to sell technology to the Navy then it will get drug through the courts more. My guess is that is the case since this has been going on for so long. I read about this crap when I was still in the Navy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2003
  12. mad brad

    mad brad Guest

    sorry but........ if the sonar truely fucks with an animals's abilty to navigate/ live etc. then i agree with the ruling. there is other technology we can use for our "protection".
     
  13. Dave K

    Dave K DaveK über alles!

    I gotta agree with Brad on this one.

    But having some Cruntchie Hippy Judge from Cali force it on the US Navy seems to be that she is over stepping her authority of what can go on in international waters.
    What next? She going to rule on giving Australia back to the aborigines? That Mars is off limits to mining by the Western Trade federation? That the injectors used on the Yosh superbike are illegal and therefore she is proclaiming Dave Sadowski the 2003 superbike champion?

    Oh well.
     
  14. RCjohn

    RCjohn Killin machine.

    Based on what I've read in the past and how the politicians have allowed this shit to drag on... I think this is technology we can live without. If it was something that we really needed then that Judge would be taken behind the courthouse and politely told to shut her piehole.

    Diesels are a threat but they aren't that big of a threat in the grand sceme of things. A diesel sub is not going to just drive across the ocean and cruise up to the coast without us noticing. They would have to have alot of luck and help to get that close to the coast. Basically they would have to shadow the coast from the south or north or use other ships as a "shield" when running engines.

    The movie Down Periscope is a good one for the kind of things diesels have to do(weather, other ships, etc.) to get close to port. Farting and making whale noises aren't normal strategies just ways of passing time. :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2003
  15. Optimus_P

    Optimus_P Active Member

    where else can you get The Terminator, a Porn star, a homosexual to run for office.


    ... sounds like a joke should be following soon ...

    so The Terminator, a Porn star, a homosexual walk into a bar....
     
  16. RCjohn

    RCjohn Killin machine.

    ... where they meet a Priest, a rapist and a pediphile.... The four of them order drinks.... :D
     
  17. Optimus_P

    Optimus_P Active Member

    Crap. I think they are trying to run for a presidency or at least a spot on congress.
     
  18. Repo Man

    Repo Man 50 years of Yamaha GP!!

    Did Kenny Roberts say that??? :p
     
  19. RCjohn

    RCjohn Killin machine.

    :D:D
     
  20. Rain Director

    Rain Director Old guy

    Japan is the threat. Rather, Japan`s newest subs are <Elmer Fudd voice> wery wery quite</Elmer Fudd voice>. And capable of being bought by some unfriendly types. Like North Korea, Iran, China.....
     

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