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ESS rules going to be like Moto America?

Discussion in 'Announcements/Information' started by HFD1Motorsports, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. HFD1Motorsports

    HFD1Motorsports BIKE TUNA

    Do not bother me by flaming me here. Simple question are you thinking of sharing the same rules between both series. Been talking to Spears heavy on this subject it would just make life simple if you would have the same set of plans....
     
  2. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I need to look at theirs more but for now not planning on it. They aren't doing SS rules.
     
  3. HFD1Motorsports

    HFD1Motorsports BIKE TUNA

    They are not ss but thought it would be easier if they are the same to cross race. Greg Spears has some good thoughts as he is on the rules committee. Big thing is the slipper clutch /trans undercutting (r3 trans is crap)
     
  4. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I totally understand it would be easier for those who want to go pro racing. However, I need to worry about our series and our customers first as well as consistency in our rules more than what pro racing is doing. As I said, I'll look at it.
     
  5. Greenhound386

    Greenhound386 Well-Known Member

    Been wanting to race the 300 with WERA, but been lazy about the steering damper requirement. Not needed with CVMA or AFM. Can that be looked at? :)

    And assuming my interpretation is accurate, not required in MotoAmerica Jr Cup. Language says, "A steering damper may be added...".
     
  6. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Nope. I've seen small bikes get into tank slappers and hurt riders. There is no reason not use a piece of safety equipment.
     
  7. Greenhound386

    Greenhound386 Well-Known Member

    I'm not trying to be indignant; just offering a customer's point of view. Tried to send this message to you privately, but I couldn't figure it out for your user name. Feel free to delete this after reading it.

    I just looked up a few results. E Superstock Expert at Vegas had 1 rider. Same class at Buttonwillow had 1 rider. Same class at Auto Club Speedway had 8 riders.

    AFM has 35+ bike grids for the little bikes at Buttonwillow. CVMA has 40+ bike grids every weekend. There are definitely little bike riders in Southern California. I'm not saying the steering damper is the reason why, but it scares off the budget-minded racers. I've been in the class for less than a year, but I don't see them often. I'd love to get a bunch of my racing buddies out to race with WERA. I raced with WERA for a couple of years when I was on 600s, but I haven't been able to get out with you guys since I changed to the little bikes. I'll end up throwing a damper on so I can do Auto Club again, but the grid sizes at Buttonwillow and Las Vegas are a little discouraging.

    edit: I understand not wanting to compromise safety to increase grid size. I have no issues running podium pace without a steering damper, but I respect that you have vastly more experience since you deal with it nationally.
     
  8. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I'd love to change it but I prefer unhurt riders more. Our rules like this are in the book because we have direct experience of needing the equipment or have seen something we require to be wired fail and hurt riders.

    I'm also truly lost on the budget thing - they are not remotely expensive. A damper, a clamp for the fork tube, a bracket to mount the other end to the firing bracket or frame or whatever. You don't need to drop hundreds of dollars on a kit.
     
  9. Greenhound386

    Greenhound386 Well-Known Member

    The Graves mount is $145. The dampers I have seen range from $350 and up. I found a Graves mount / Ohlins damper combo for $499.99. That's a lot of money for something that I don't personally want to put on my bike. Maybe there are some budget options out there that I haven't seen, yet.

    At $500, that's more than 12% of the cost of my entire bike!
     
  10. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Definitely cheaper options than Graves and Ohlins...
     
  11. Greenhound386

    Greenhound386 Well-Known Member

    K-Tech is $480. GPR is $472. Toby is $535.

    Some non-branded eBay stuff from China, but I wouldn't trust that stuff.

    I can't find a name brand that I recognize for under $450.

    All a moot point since the rules are in place for safety reasons, but just saying that it isn't cheap.
     
  12. TLR67

    TLR67 Well-Known Member

    Fixed....
     
  13. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    41mm brackets going for 10 bucks on ebay, for a pair. Universal cheap damper $35. Scrap of aluminum to mount the other end priceless? :D
     
    badmoon692008 and backbone like this.
  14. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Name brands aren't all that when it comes to dampers unless you are planning on moving it bike to bike forever - which is a good plan and amortizes the cost over many years and bikes making the cost a non issue.

    I find it funny that all those prices are about the cost of one single set of tires....
     
  15. Greenhound386

    Greenhound386 Well-Known Member

    Fair enough! But there's no way I am putting a $35 part from China on my bike that is literally and directly attached to my ability to control the motorcycle. Kind of defeats the safety aspect of the damper.

    Good point on moving it from bike to bike by changing brackets. Need one for the 600 I will be buying soon. The new R6s don't have one.
     
  16. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I don't disagree with the sentiment but the chinese junk does work, not as well as the good ones, not rebuildable, but it works. Personally I like rotary dampers and have a Scotts/Ohlins on the Hyper.

    Even going super expensive on a damper it's what, 15 gallons of race fuel?
     
  17. Greenhound386

    Greenhound386 Well-Known Member

    I use 87 in my R3. Works out to about 156 gallons in CA, haha.
     
  18. Riders Discount

    Riders Discount 866-931-6644 ext 817

    ^^^ This

    My first crash (1995) was a tank slapper on a lightweight bike. The bike came with a WP damper that was blown out and I didn't know any better at the time.
     
  19. TurboBlew

    TurboBlew Registers Abusers

    you are assuming the worst for no reason. I bought 10 sets of angled valve stems from china that were way better than the $30+ Ariete sets sold by some popular places. I figured whats $30 to try 10 sets out for the price of 1. Pretty good deal. Any builder that puts a damper "kit" together is going to use the cheapest sourced parts and mark it up a whole hell of alot for their time! Business 101.
     
  20. tgold

    tgold Well-Known Member

    Many people figure out how to mount an OEM GSXR damper that can be had for $10.00 on ebay all day long. I have no trouble with that knowing that it is Japanese quality. If you want some adjustability you can get an NHK damper (They have been used since the 70's) for less than $50.00. There are inexpensive ways that are safe if you really want to race.
     
    backbone likes this.

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