Elbows a "new" thing?

Not criticizing at all, just curious about it.

 

I don't care how he rides....the kid is on the top step of the box in his second appearance on the bike. Like him or not or care about his elbow draggin or not you have to respect that level of talent.

 

....winning???

 

Not so far to fall if you lowside......even further to get launched in a highside.

 

Actually, since he is further down on the side of the motorcycle he would be closer to the tire. The tire is basically the fulcrum of the leverage in a high side. Since he is actually on a shorter lever arm, he may not get flung off as far in a high side.

 

Exactly the two points I thought when I first saw him last year. It could almost be for a longevity in the sport thing instead of just for speed while cornering. It does seem like all his gusto comes from a little more corner speed and a much better drive off the corner than his opponents.
It's hard to tell if he's carrying less lean angle because his tiny little dwarf body covers up most of what you'd look at to judge it.
In sharp contrast watch ole Peeeeegrum next AMA SBK race. He is so twisted up and doing everything 'wrong' its hard to fathom how he's not either low siding the bike every turn, or 15 seconds off the pace per lap. I guess in practice, either way works. It's a little apples to oranges talking Peeg/MM but the guys are both fast respectively and have as opposite body position as two riders could have without one hanging off the right side of the bike in a left turn.
When I see pictures from the track of my good BP going through a corner with another rider who is twisted up with their hips twisted around the tank and their head on the oppo side it's obvious how much more lean angle theyre using than I am, but obviously some people can make anything work....to an extent.

 

I was thinking that as far as he is hanging off the bike could theoretically highside itself out from under him.

 

SPEED showed a side-by-side shot of him and Pedrobot coming out of the same spot of the same turn with their varying syles; Marquez clearly had his bike standing just that little bit more upright and on the meat of the tire while accelerating with him hanging off like that.

 

No. I have actually noticed quite the opposite. Hayes himself is more upright and appears to use less lean angle, but look at the relationship of his bike to the ground or his clip-on from the ground. His bike is often leaned over further than the people around him.

Hayes isn't able to defy the laws of physics. If you want to carry x mph through a corner with x radius, the amount of "lean" (for lack of a better term) has to be accounted for somewhere. So him carrying the same (or more) corner speed while not hanging off the inside of the bike means his bike is often leaned over more than others. It just doesnt look like it because his body is further away from the ground.

The key is that he spends less time at full lean angle (which is the the other primary goal). Spies has commented on how Lorenzo is so good at that, he leans the bike over just as far or further than anybody else, but he spends less time at full lean angle.

As Russell somewhat referred to in the broadcast, moving the CoM lower and to the inside of the bike reduces the lean angle of the bike for any given corner speed. That is just a fact. Now, whether it is "necessary" or not could be debated till the world ends. Obviously people have went very fast (like Hayes) with less than perfect BP.

The arguement could be made that those with less than ideal BP do not have as much room for error (because they are having to lean the bike more). But again, people with the feel, experience and throttle/brake/bike control like Hayes can "get away with" carrying more lean angle because they don't make as many mistakes.

 

Well, I'm seriously pissed about this. I never was able to drag a knee, and now the current fashion is going to be dragging elbows?

 

none. its all about whats comfortable, and what works for the rider. cant change the laws of physics.

 

The benefit is less lean angle for a given speed/radius...which can = more throttle application and more room for error, as Russell stated during the race (and illustrated by showing how MM was able to get on the throttle harder/sooner than Pedrosa.

With that being said, i agree with the comfort part. "Proper" BP wont help if you are way too uncomfortable to cocentrate on riding.

 

I'm pretty sure i read somewhere that MM relies on his elbow to gauge lean angle in the same way people use their knee.

 

there was a kid draggin his elbow all the way through turns 5 and 6 at RRR a couple years ago....looked cool as hell. I passed him on the outside of that very turn the next lap .. my elbow was no where near the ground ... he looked cool though.

Im not buying that you need to do it to win MotoGP races.... but Im also not going to suggest that I know jack shit about riding at the sharp end of MotoGP... I'll leave that to the internet badasses

I wouldn't go deciding whether or not this style works better or worse depending on a slow motion video of one corner.... all it takes is for the two riders to have different turn in points or a different line and that will affect who picks it up earlier much more than their body position... IMHO

 

Yep. I have seen a few people with their elbow down at track days......while being 5sec off even a Novice podium race pace. They were just really tall, lanky and hung off alot.

 

No doubt. I think the point of the slow-mo was more to show the lengths MM goes through to keep the tire in the meat for a strong drive.

I always looked at body positioning in one way, and one way only-

Rossi
Schwantz
Doohan
Rainey
Kocinski

Five radically different styles, yet each one getting the job done. In other words, at that level 'correct body position' can simply be defined as whatever position allows the rider to best exploit their ability and the ability of the platform they're riding, imho.

 

What is Ben Spies nickname again? I think you guys have forgotten he has leathers made with hard plastic on his elbows for a reason

 

finally