Discussion in 'General' started by Tj Hunter, Nov 20, 2019.
^ that's where the single sided swingarm comes in handy
Days, plural, as in 14-28 x 20min sessions, out of 1 rear tire?
I reckon we need to speak to your setup dude. That's awesome.
Who says Im not
Ninja 250 and 300, Sv650 all versions, Daytona 675, Honda CBR600RR, S1000RR
I think Ive narrowed it down to a Monster S2R 1000 (gets into a lot of classes, air cooled, 2V, parts are plentiful), 959(seems most race orgs allow 1000cc twins in HW) or 1199/1299. There is something about the Panigale that spoke to me and I can not get it out of my head!
I love my Ducatis and have raced 4 or 5 different ones over the years. I raced the 848 extensively including the D-200 twice. I also put 3 motors in it over 3 seasons, and I am easy on engines. First time, I rebuilt it preemptively (for the 200) Second time because I lowsided at Barber and it was running on it's side (so it ate the rod bearings a little, and the 200 was coming up AGAIN.) The third time one of those locking tab washers that hold the timing gears broke, went through the gears and it cracked the cases.
The 848 is expensive to get set up correctly and maintain. You have to ride it differently than your average 600. It's fast within the Middleweight rules, so there's that. At the very least you need the Kyle linkage, Triples, and cut the swingarm so you can use all of your ride height and shorten the wheelbase.
Also let's say you low side and break your fairing bracket. It's going to run you several hundred dollars for a new one, you can get a new front subframe for an R6 for $12.
The 959 is a pretty cool bike, I rode one once and didn't really get along with it, but that bike had zero setup done and was basically assembled from parts. I don't even think it had a tune. So a streetbike probably would have been better. That being said, I hear great things about them by people who do ride them.
The big question is what are your goals? If you just want to have fun and race it up, then you should really buy the bike that makes you happy, even if it is more expensive or not perfect in some other way, assuming you can afford it. This is the way I raced for years. Eventually what I was spending got out of control and I wasn't improving as a rider. So I decided to get on the bikes everyone else was riding so at least I could get a fair comparison. That turned out to be the best thing I had ever done and re-invigorated me to race more. All that being said, I did really enjoy racing the Ducs and they brought a lot of enjoyment along with those big bills.
As far as the big bike / tire discussion, If you get moving on a 600, you're going to eat through rears after 20 laps or so anyway, so I don't see much difference. For me the biggest thing is that I'm more comfortable pushing the limits on a smaller bike, so I'm more competitive. The 600 still feels fast to me!
Plus they never seem to start in the morning without some coaxing of some kind. New battery, start it up the night before the race, doesn't matter. It still coughs and barely turns over Saturday morning. That's why you always see all the Ducati guys pushing their bikes to tech. Every time I thumb the starter on my R6, I'm happy.
I raced a 999r with high compression pistons. I had to have a set of rollers to start that thing and could never turn it off or I'd be pushing it back to the pits!
I have nine Ducatis in the shed. Ride them to bike night at the local what-a-burger. You can amaze and impress all you meet with tales of desmodromic valve actuation. Race a Yamaha.
Yep. To this point I’ve been happy. I’ve never really been abusive on tires though. I do run the tc on 2 so maybe I’m not spinning it up much? Hell if I know.
I raced an 848 (corse edition with the oem ohlins shock) and it was just fine. No need for triples or linkage or any of that bullshit. Plenty of bike to run top 3 in HWT or top 10 in C ex classes. Only problem I ever had with it was the shift return spring broke but that was a known issue and an easy fix.
If you go the 2valve route, do either the new 797+ or try to hunt down a 1000SS. Same motor as the S2R but a much better chassis. Monster rear ends of that era were utter trash.
The 899 is the same motor as the big Pani but with sleeves right? Same trans? Not sure on the 848.
Its funny you should mention that, I actually switched the search over to a 1000SS if I go 2V route, I read that from a lot of people that the SS chassis is SO much better, I also noticed a LOT of S2R frames crack in were the tubes make the "x" about were the middle of the vertical cylinder would be.
The 899 has a few non magnesium parts (easy to swap) and its a sleeved 1199 block, essentially one could make an 1199 with a stock 899 if you removed the sleeve. Other then that its the same bike with a double sided swingarm and a few less adjustments (shock linkage and rear shock)
I to have had the shift spring break in a testastretta engine...and other people have had valve issues, bearing issues, con rods, etc...seems the more research I do on them the more I want to stay away from the 848 platform. From what I understand, most of the upgrades that were needed were addressed on the corse edition, so thats probably why you had such good luck with it.
The rod bearings were fixed on the 848 EVO models as they went back to the 999r style. Outside of that, I loved my 848 and regularly proved people wrong that you had to have linkages and triples to go fast. Would I have been faster, sure, but it suited my riding style very well. When set up flat, you can brake extremely late, which I loved. But you sacrifice your turning capability.
The larger downfall to the 848 in HWT Twins is sincerely a lack of power compared to the 180-200 hp big bikes. Hard to make that up a long tracks.
At the end of the day, it’s a plastic trophy and bragging rights. Race what you want and have fun!
That commonality to me seems like an advantage over the 848. (Or I just really really like the 899 which is also true )
Well, sort of. The cases are the same. The 1199 has a longer throw crankshaft and therefore different rods. Obviously sleeves and pistons are different as are cylinder heads, camshafts etc. the gearbox is of the same design.
The 848 is to the 1198 the same as 899-1199 with the exception of the big testastrettas has dry
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That’s not exactly correct. The rod bearing design hasn’t changed, they’ve been Clevite 112 plain bearings forever. Perhaps the clearances from the factory have changed, I’m not sure.
The Crankshaft ball bearings were weaker with fewer balls in the 848s than the ‘standard’ 1198/1098/999/749 style. All 848s has these bearings, including Evos.
Panigales eliminated these bearings by using a plain journal style bearing for the crankshaft too.
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I believe the 1000SS is identical geometry wise to the 900ssie which i raced. If thats the case aim for 12.5 degrees on the swingarm. Lengthen thw rear shock as much as possible and have enough fork above the triples to mount your clip ons on top.
Also, i dont recall if the 1000DS motors had a tip over sensor. If they dont, add one. I learned that the hard way on my 900.
As far as I know, Ducati does not use tip over sensors, that was something that I have already looked into, it looks like the best option is a tether cord style shut off.
Get an older super sport. Tons of fun to race and it won't break the bank when you throw it down the track.
I've got an 800SS I'll sell you. It's the good year too!
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