Clutch plates dry. Built engine.... How?

Don't know specifically, but I'd say any that is not being pressure fed from the center like the OP's.

 

Checking the pushrod ball will tell you if there is oil in the hollow shaft.
Immediate clutch failure (AFTER the proper pre-oiling) on the first dyno run eliminates lack of oil as the culprit.

 

well to give everyone trying to help out some info. I saw the clutch it looked new and was dry. Im sorry i dont know enough to help out other than back in the day i would see the yam guys take the clutch out and soak them in oil to get a good start. It was only good for one launch. after that it would chatter. I do think you guys are right about not getting oil. They are doing everything they can, but have run out of ideals. Im sure they are grateful for all your ideals and help. You soak the plates in oil to have it soak into the material. It expands and keeps it from glazing. Same as on a Auto trans clutch. The material its made is the deciding factor here. I think they have 2 probs. the lack of oil and the internal adjuster. They did look at the install height of the clutches, LOL thats the first thing i ask too. Info is hard to come by. Thanks for all the help.
An Dustin good to meet you and your group. Good luck and be safe.

Steven Isenhower #52 2001 V-6
2nd Sucks Racing
281-536-3330

 

Soak the fibers. Watch the bubbles. They do soak up oil.

And JD and emry have excellent advice. That pushrod seal can block the input.

 

My old BSA's... well they did until I went to a belt drive kit...

 

Did not think of the BSA, but rather the XR.

 

The fiber plates?? They won't absorb oil?? I would have to disagree...with all due respect.:up:

Much like there are plates designed to be between steel plates and the ones for use between steel/aluminum (pressure head/hub) that are a different materal/sinter/copper/brass,fibers

Wet plates are designed to be used with oil, although there are wet/dry and dry only plates...all common in concept and use, but with different compounds holding them together, allowing them to work in their respective applications.

 

I have broken or cut a few apart just to satisfy my own curiousity. The several I have checked I found no evidence of any or very little.

 

I do not think I saw anyone answer the question if they are oem plates or aftermarket, I have had brand new EBC clutches slip on 125 and 250 two strokes before from stack not being thick enough, why I only use oem to this day anyway.

 

Heat it up alittle and watch it come out...

It looks kinda like warming up an OilLite bushing..

 

Thanks Steven, yeah we tried basically everything. Today I pulled the whole basket and replaced it, checked the adjustment. Fine..... SLIP.. Shit..

Even took and put in the FZR400 flat plunger in with the FZR400 plates... Slip.... Then tried adding a steel plate in the middle.... No go, not enough adjustment.

Get home and pull up the drawings. And since this is a combination of two motors, a YZF600R and a FZR400 ( not exactly sure which part is which except the 400 crank and cases I believe) and pulled up the micro-fiche to check the parts I already have.

The parts in the bike are a FZR400 clutch basket, and clutch plates (I went through two sets of OEM steels and fibers and one EBC clutch kit.

But part 9 on this fiche... Is a flat plunger (not sure that is the right word)

http://www.cmsnl.com/yamaha-fzr400a-1990_model9585/partslist/C-04.html

That was not in there. But this was.... Number 12.
http://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/yamaha-yzf600rlrlc-1999-clutch_bigyau1829c-6_72b2.gif

But with number 28 and 29 bearing and washer from this fiche.... Which is a FZR750.

http://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/yamaha-fzr750rt-1987-clutch_bigyau0033c-7_d0fa.gif


So basically, I have tried, # sets of different clutch kits, two different clutch baskets, 2 different plungers, and even adding a plate. Still no go. Plates are coming out hot as hell when I make a run and stink.

Sooo..... What's yalls guess now? JD I will check that also. I will make a vid on Wednesday or Thursday of the whole process. Including on the bike.

Thanks for all yalls help. Hopefully I can get it sorted.

 

While this wont help the OP, most modern wet clutch plates are made from cork or paper. Paper is more aggressive and has "bite" while the cork is smooth and "soft" Current Yamaha's use cork as the outer plates, that ride against the basket and the pressure plate, while paper is used inside the stack. This allows some slip during start off = less chatter. "Dry" clutches are typically organic (mostly carbon now, asbestos used to be popular) or ceramic with a large amount of copper or other metal embedded, although race clutches can be almost entirely metal. That is why when a dry clutch gets oiled it slips, the metal components Cof change drastically when lubricated.

 

If you're putting the clutch together with one of the current friction-reducing engine oils (anything that claims better mileage, lower engine friction, or something similar), you're cutting your clutch torque capacity by about 20% - guaranteed instant failure in an engine with increased horsepower.

 

If it were me, I would shorten a pushrod (in a valve facer) and try that extra plate...
Along with oem fibers and new springs.
I don't like the service life of aftermarket clutch springs, but they ARE stiffer than stock when new...
Is there any way to verify that the pushrod has NO preload?

 

I was gonna suggest to try it without the push rod... I know difficult unless on a dyno... but that would eliminate that part of the equasion...

 

Can't go with no rod at all, the shaft is wet, but a stub shaft or some other "corking" device would be great test..

 

Dustin i wish i could help more. If you care to drive to houston i will do everything i can to fix it. We can rip it down and find the problem. offer good anytime. Good luck.

Steven Isenhower #52 2001 V-6
2nd Sucks Racing
281-536-3330

 

Thanks Steve, I'm gonna try some stuff this week and hopefully it works.

 

One other thing I thought of, with that wonky combination of parts, make sure you have freeplay for the clutch rod pusher? IE, between the pressure plate and end of the primary shaft. I don't know if it's possible, but if that were somehow "pinched" between the pressure plate and end of the shaft, it could be the source of the problem.

 

Been few years on them but iirc we used to modify the pusher/grooved to get bit more oil. Also type of oil can help. I have seen some oils really work better than others in regards to clutches (torco IMO one of worst) have u tried different brands of oil? It can really affect it. I have best luck with Motul (300v & 7100) castrol Rs and motorex pwr synt. Lastly what friction plates you using? I have best luck with oem.