i don't disagree that you can potentially get rid of handling issues, with enough time and money working on suspension, but there have been times i have seen suspension issues go away.. and lap times improve.. with a different brand of tire. Of the few times i have seen this "phenomena" .. it was a rider getting off dunlops. i'm not saying get on a specific brand, but i am saying consider trying another tire than dunlop if you have ongoing front chatter issues. And guess what, it costs zero dollars to change tire brand. Is it the ideal situation, instead of fixing the suspension ? depends. i also can't ignore the fact that i know a good number of riders that run brand "X" in club racing, then run the spec tire in the pro stuff. Every one of them turn faster lap times at tracks where they have ran both tires.
When I first started racing an FZR400 it came with Pirelli's so that is what I used, bike was great, no suspension issues. Tried Dunlops one weekend as the Pirelli vendor was having issues. Swore I was riding a pogo stick, tried to fix it, no dice. Put a Pirelli back on and smooth as glass again. A couple years later I tried them again and really liked them, great side grip.
uhh no, it costs like $400+ to change tire brand... $0 is turning suspension twiddlers i get that you're assuming he's gonna buy new tires so he's net no loss.. but that's a big assumption, and a big wrong one if he turns out not to like them it's just what the rider's used to. i've gone just equally fast on pirelli, bridgestone, and dunlop. i couldn't get the feedback i wanted from the bridgestone and i never came to terms with the "squish" of the pirelli... and once i got back on dunlop i thought to myself "thank god". they're all equally capable.. i'm just more used to, and thus comfortable on, the dunlop.
i didn't get the memo tires last forever these days... of COURSE i mean he buys a new set when needed, but from the desperation in the tone of his post, he's ready. Did you not see the initial post where he ALREADY TRIED lots of knob fiddling, including totally different valving ? how much more should he spend with suspension tuners, or different suspension components before changing (trying) the SINGLE VARIABLE that has for a number of years, been the one constant in grip chatter issues? the dunlop front.. And how long ago was it that you were on really squishy pirelli tires ? the front is not the same as it was 5 years+ ago. Softer carcass than a dunlop? yea, but if you can't go faster on a pirelli or michelin than a spec dunlop, you aren't riding the bike correctly. There is just way too much info out there proving this. Too many riders proving that with lap times. Without a doubt, the dunlop spec tire is not as fast as the pirelli or michelin. if you don't believe this, you are in denial.. i get the contingency argument, if you are fast enough to get it.. great. I get the motoamerica argument, need to set the bike up for it. but to say this guy will hate a pirelli or michelin after riding a dunlop? i have yet to see that be the case with the current generation of all 3 brand's tires..
... he didn't say how much he'd spent with suspension tuners, and if he's like many coming on to this forum asking for help (sorry to generalize, OP, just going on lack of details) then there's a solid chance he hasn't given *anything* to a professional. I ran Pirelli back-to-back with Dunlop earlier this year. It wasn't the front squish that bothered me, it was the rear.. when you start to get on the Pirellis hard (either front or rear) then they squish. The solution, I was told, was to just get on it harder and ignore the squish.. but I was never willing to fully ignore it; it always felt exactly the same as starting to lose traction to me. I didn't say he'd hate Pirelli or Michelin, I said that tire choice is ultimately rider preference, that they're all equally capable, and that I'm simply more comfortable on the Dunlop. You're the guy saying the Dunlop's flat-out not as fast as the Pirelli or Michelin.. seems like the brand koolaid is a bit more on your side of this argument. Club-level riders doing MotoA may switch tire brands between the two series, but it's not because the tire is more capable, it's because the rider prefers one over the other. When a CCS rider on Michelin or Pirelli sets a faster time than Cameron Beaubier on a Dunlop, then I will believe you that the tire itself could be the difference. Until then.. the tire is very clearly capable of the performance. Your suggestion of trying another tire brand; while legitimately an avenue he might want to explore if he's not familiar with any of the other brands (aside from this issue), would also cost him $400 if he bought a set of tires, put twenty laps on them, and then decided he didn't like them. I dunno about where you live, but where I live you can't sell even pristine takeoffs for more than $50. That ain't a $0 net. Back to the OP's problem; I also never said that switching tires wouldn't solve his problem. I do imagine that if it went away, the softer tire would simply be masking it.. which I think (don't wanna put words in his mouth) is what RM Racing was implying when he said that he's seen plenty of chatter problems get fixed without switching tire brands.
Agree with your points, but you can't run P or M back-to-back from D (and visa-versa) and not make suspension changes to accommodate. It simply won't work out well. When dialed in, Pirelli's don't "squish". They bite into the pavement like a rabid dog into a hunk of meat. If they squish, you're doing it wrong.
Haha, yeah the suspension definitely was changed over and massaged all day to adjust to the change. I'm sure if I spent the time to really re-learn the tire I'd love it as much as the Dunlop; not doubting its capabilities.
This is what I was saying. A few years back, Michelin fronts had all the chatter and some said switching to Dunlop would solve it. Everyone eventually got it sorted. Some changed brands, some didn't or couldn't. Round and round she goes. The fact is, you can almost always solve these handling problems without switching tires, probably without revalving and definitely without reinventing the wheel. Plenty of fast guys go plenty fast on spec Dunlops without chatter. And Pirellis and Michelins as well.
I still remember Jensen and Lynn talking about never getting that fully dialed out. They still went fast as hell though.
on their Kawi's maybe, and way back when the michelin front was a brick. any of todays tire other than the dunlop ? emmm .. not so much.
Hi, sorry I'm late. Couple of questions for the OP; does the chatter happen in every turn or only rights / lefts / fast / slow whatever turns? Or is it only in one specific turn at one track? When you say "chatter" can you be more specific? Are you able to hold the line or? When, in relation to any other changes, did the "chatter" show up? For example I see you have an R6 front and Attack adj clamps, so did you change something (front or rear, weight, etc) before the issue started happening (or has it always been there)? Also, have you eliminated any possible mechanical failures (ie bent tube/ wheel/ etc, incorrectly installed wheel, tire, spring, etc).
Chatter happens every corner. I can make it less bothersome if I get of the brakes wayyyyy early. I have tried multiple sets of forks, wheels, and rotors. The only thing I changed was a fork rebuild over the off season, but I have tried multiple forks. This issue showed up this year, it baffles me.
Hmm, yeah, that is a bit odd. OK, so when you say chatter I'm assuming the front does a sort of jackhammer/ pogostick type thing that you feel through the clip-ons. Is that about right or is it something else? What does the back do? How does the bike track otherwise? Big question is what did you change from last season to this? try and remember EVERYTHING from forks to sprockets. And like ekraft said it may be time to take it all the way apart and see what you can see. Cracked weld, worn out bushings, etc, weird stuff happens to 15 year old race bikes and it sounds like something may have broken. And, yeah, if you are in the market for tires, why not try a different brand if for no other reason than to eliminate a possibility or narrow your focus? Worth a shot anyway (though from what you're saying I still think its likely something in your chassis has gone plooey).
Recently had this problem, very long story short turns out my forks were not straight in the triples. Loosened up the front end, straightened everything and tightened it all back up and chatter went away. Overall I would start checking that everything is straight/tight/in spec before changing settings or tires, just my $.02
It sounds like you have delt with this for awhile, and I'm sure have ran multiple rear tires already. But it's one more thing to look at....I've had a guy complain about "chatter", changed multiple things on the front end and it ended up being a severely out of round rear tire. I actually rode the bike and at speed it would "chatter" when leaned over on the edge. But I was able to determine it was the rear tire. Basically, look at the rear as well as the front.
Will do sir. I am breaking the bike down this weekend, all the way to a are frame if need be. Thanks everyone for the input!!!! This shit is driving me crazy!
Have you checked your tire pressure gauge lately. My good one was off by 15 psi all of the sudden, and I did not notice till I used a friends. I now carry three in the tool box and use at least two at a time. I will soon be building a T that has two on one hose so I can use one unit with two gauges.
