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Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the future of Iraq?

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by tcasby, Mar 9, 2004.

  1. tcasby

    tcasby Banned

    Is Islam a significant part of the problem?
     
  2. tcasby

    tcasby Banned

    I agree, but don't forget is Germany and Japan.
     
  3. ysr612

    ysr612 Well-Known Member

    just made it up no train ever blew up over in the middle east with a force 4 time what the NH4No3 ship blew up in Galv. Bay.
     
  4. tcasby

    tcasby Banned

    To answer my own question, <insert a bunch of PC disclaimers here> but yes.
     
  5. gixer1100

    gixer1100 CEREAL KILLER

    hey Zeb roger already made my point, there was never any WMD, so following that train of thought, no one would have died from them. and as for trying to protect the country from non weapon related attacks (9/11 etc) then you lost in that regard as well since i believe the attack on iraq only served to fuel the opposition of the US even more. they may not get any more attacks but that would be a result of the increased security here, because i believe they would want to attack more than ever now. and BTW i dont think the new security measures put in place here will keep an attack from happening if they go about it the right way. there are loopholes in everything.
     
  6. todzuki

    todzuki got OBS?

    I just hope Kerry picks a good VP to run the country with him. Bush fucked up pretty bad and now that the public is rejecting the whole 9/11-vote for me ad campaign, it seems that only the most hard-headed, blind to the truth, singleminded people will actually vote for him. And my rich boss.
    Iraq is a mess. It's not free yet. They are not free from oppression (at the hands of thier own people and whatever agent of terror is shaking them down today). They cannot stand in a line for a job as a security agent or police officer or soldier of the new gov't w/out fear of suicide bombings or drive by's or carbombs. What the hell are they supposed to do? Now is the time for a strong, new Iraqi leader to emerge and take control. I just don't see the US as capable of providing a safe place to live for the iraqis. Every US soldier is a walking target for these bastards. But leaving the country to their own devices will bring nothing less than anarchy. Hatred for the US is growing exponentially and it scares me.
     
  7. Knarf Legna

    Knarf Legna I am not Gary Hoover

    The rush to rebuild Iraq that many are crying for may be a folly, according to a report prepared by Rand. http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1753/.

    Particularly interesting is Chapter 9, Lessons Learned, which suggests that rushing to establish a replacement government during nation building may be counter-productive and actually play into the hands of insurgents.

    To have the best chance of success, this will take time.
     
  8. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    Only a small segment of the public, the same segment that cries about everything Bush does, including the tax refund they got (which I'm sure they all refused to take in order to help reduce the defecit).

    Kerry couldn't run a McDonalds, never mind the country. If you've studied his record of accomplishments as a Senator, then you know he has spent years doing absolutely nothing. Only the most hard-headed, blind to the truth, simpleminded people will actually vote for him.

    He couldn't carry Bush's lunch bag.

    As far as Iraq still being a mess and not free yet, from a historic perspective, the fact that you even expect such a thing in the short time-span since the war began is ludicrous.
     
  9. Team Atomic

    Team Atomic Go Go SOX!

    ...really not by what the recent poles say....:D

    I wonder what smear tactic the right is going throw out next??
     
  10. tcasby

    tcasby Banned

    Is this really the way you see the world?
     
  11. Rain Director

    Rain Director Old guy

    Last week's attacks on the Shiite followers (about 120 died immediately) during a religious procession were by "remnants of the former ruling regime." The "former ruling regime was predominantly Sunni. Sunni is the prevelant sect in Sadam's home town. Seems like there was a "good ole boy" aspect to Iraqi politics

    Disclaimer: My comment "remnants of the former ruling regime." came from an NPR news report I heard on Morning Edition. (Is that good enough, Rodger? ;) )

    One could say that Islam is a part of the problem. But before you do that, substitute "Southern Baptist" for Sunni and "Greek Orthodox" for Shiite, and the location this took place was Georgia. Those Southern Baptists control the politics in Alabama, and the Greek Orthodox followers are refugees from Bosnia.

    Is this now a religious fight between religous sects or is it political?
     
  12. mtk

    mtk All-Pro Bike Crasher

    Only problem with that example, George, is that the Baptists aren't exactly known for rampant violence and killing. You can't say the same about the Sunni folks.
     
  13. Buckwild

    Buckwild Radical

    Sez who?
     

  14. Those shells were found and destroyed by the UN inspectors, right before the invasion. According to the UN and the news reports, they were the "first batch" to be destroyed, implying there were more. Once the invasion began the UN inspectors pulled out and further news about this was not forthcoming.

    They weren't duds. The UN commission found that "the quality of the mustard agent was good (not less than 80 per cent pure) and was such that the agent could be stored for long periods, either in bulk or in weaponized form. Even years after its production, the mustard agent analysed by the Commission was found to be in good and usable condition. " (UN report)

    If you don't want to consider viable mustard gas in any quantity a "mass" destruction weapon, you are entitled to your opinion. The families of the 16,000 Iranians killed by Saddam's mustard gas might disagree with you.
     
  15. Only problem with that example, George, is that the Baptists aren't exactly known for rampant violence and killing. You can't say the same about the Sunni folks.

    OK, substitute Baptists with Roman Catholic, they haven't exactly got a history full of peace and love towards their fellow Christians.
     
  16. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    Sorry Slow, that was a preemptive attack.:p :D

    My point was that 10 shells was not worth an invasion and is not significant enough to warrant the claim that Iraq was harboring WMDs, except in a hyper-technical sense.

    And you need to flesh out the facts on the shells not being duds. Just b/c the toxic agent was good, what was the status of the shell? would it make its way out of the artillery piece? If it would, would it disperse the chemical agent properly or even semi-efficiently?
     
  17. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    Another reason why the shells don't support an invasion: They were destroyed before the invasion.

    But I will pull the switch on Saddams brief visit to the electric chair, if they use those ibn Iraq. Slow, do you want to arm wrestle for that honor?:D
     
  18. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    NPR is way to conservative for me. I listen to CHICOM Daily News on the shortwave for all my news.:p
     
  19. A philosophical question then - what's the magic number? If it's not 10, is it 11? Or 20? Or 100? Or 1000? What, specifically related to WMDs that weren't supposed to be there in any quantity to begin with, would have constituted the number where Rodger Doyle would say, "Let's invade?" Or would you say that Iraq posed no threat to us or our allies regardless of weapons status?

    No idea. Don't care either. The UN said they were still viable. My weapons expertise lies in small arms, not in artillery or bio/chem weapons. I assume that the UN inspectors had some competency in this area, so I defer to them.

    BTW, here's an interesting read:

    Iraqi Weapons: Five Unanswered Questions
     
  20. mtk

    mtk All-Pro Bike Crasher

    Sez me. I haven't heard about the Southern Baptists laying down the whoop ass on the Bosnian immigrants in Georgia on the news lately so I'll have to assume that Georgia is safely free of car bombs set by Baptists. The Sunni muslims, on the other hand, are still killing their countrymen today in Iraq.

    Now if you want to go back a few hundred years, then all bets are off. But I was referring to current events in the Baptist comparison Mr. Mood brought up. While the Baptists may not cater to their Bosnian neighbors, they're definitely not actively trying to kill them, that's all.
     

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