Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the future of Iraq?

I keep swinging from one to the other. I am glad to see the interim constitution passed.
I don't see how we or the Iraqis can stop this seeming endless supply of human bombs. The Iraqis seem like they would much prefer a benevolent dictator over a constructional democracy.

How do you see Iraq five years from now?

 

a shit hole that the US will either have to walk away from and cut their loss's, or stay there and keep incurring more loss's. either way its a losing proposition. more americans are dieing now than would have if those non-existant WMD ever went off. oh and for those that thought the oil was the reason (i am one), well that isnt workin out to well either lately. so really what good has come out of this?

 

Iraq

i see the invasion of Iraq as partially good, since Sadam is in custody and no longer able to terrorize the world. as for Iraq 5 years from now........ like gixer-1100 said.

a smaller life-sucking replica of the Vietnam conflict where the USA takes the brunt of the death and financial responsabilities....

yeah, it would be nice to see them stand on their own feet and become an independant country, but i'm not holding my breath....

 

Re: Iraq

Butt only is it's the type of independant country that's on our approved list...

 

breath

again.......

i'm not holding my breath............................. we have an "approved" list?

 

Oh yeah there Einstein... 400-500 deaths in the war equals more than if I nuke went off in New York... ok there sparky, enjoy your stay at the crack house.... do you have any idea how many people would die if even a small nuke went off in any of our metropolitan regions? millions wonderboy, millions, and you would be first in line to blame bush for not invading iraq, and ignoring the intellegence that said that iraq DID have WMD. it's all risk mitigation junior, if you're willing to sit on your ass when reports come in saying a country has WMD, and not worry about it, they I'm glad you're not in power anywhere..... what would happen if a police station got a call saying there was a bomb in a school somewhere, you think they would just sit around, or would they go evacuate the school, look for it, and if there's nothing there, leave, and let everyone back in... that's what we're doing in iraq, only on a larger scale, and it takes longer to look for that bomb than it would in a high school....

 

wmd have been shipped to Iran and other places. It was poetic justice that the tain blew up transporting fertilizer made of plastic explosive.

 

It is too hard to get concerned about that sandy s--thole when my friends cant even get jobs here.

 

Glen:

What is your evidence of this?

 

Zeb, I think that you forgot that the allegation of an ongoing nuclear wepons program was a mistake. Didn't Busg et al. admit this?

 

You are probably correct, given that there were no WMD's anyhow.

Rodger

PS Slow and Scared keeps on bringing up the fact the we (or someone) found 10 mustard gas shells in Iraq. While this may be true, it is insignificant to the discussion of WMDs, given that the M in WMD stands for "Mass" and you will not get "mass" destruction out of 10 gas shelss that are all probably duds anyhow. Right Slow.

 

zep your one of the few that believe IRAQ had a hand in 9/11...

as for smuggled WMD I suggest you spend a little time in the library because there is plenty of proof to support otherwise.

or just read the latest Kay report.

 

But of course. After all, we all know what great friends Iran and Iraq are. Not to mention that it makes great sense to hide WMD in Iran after Saddam Hussein has been captured. Everybody knows that fertilizer could not possibly be use to... fertilize.

p.s. Not saying the shipments could not possibly be related to WMD production, but some prove would be nice before jumping to conclusions.

 

Back on topic:

the war was immensly stupid the way Bush went about it. But I was overjoyed to see Saddam captured, and I think that the more pressure we put on Al Qeda the better chance we have of avoiding another Afganistan.

I am feeling a bit more optimistic as time goes on. But I wish there was more international involvement and I wish we had more troops there to better police the place and help provide security. But don't forget the mass deaths that occured int eh last week or so. Very destabilizing to the situation.

Once the Iraqis can feel safe and go about there lives and jobs, things may get better faster.

 

In most cases, at least as far as I know, the police does not pick a school they don't like, decide that there is a bomb and go in to prove it exists. They typically get a tip from an outside party.

About the original question: five years from now it will still be a volatile shithole.

 

I hope you're wrong. It doesn't have to be a shithole. If we were to play our cards better it won't be a bad place in a couple years.

But Papa, I think the odds are that you are right, sad to say.

 

I supported the war. Had I even suspected the clusterf*uck the occupation would become, I would have felt differently.

I feel the administration honestly believed the WMD threat was real.

Under no circumstances should we walk away from this. To allow the "resistance" a victory would undermine our military credibility and even further damage out political credibility.

As terrible as the mounting US and Iraqi casualties are, this has to be kept in perspective. At the start of the war we were ready to accept the possibility of thousands of US causalities if street to street fighting in Baghdad was required, or if the Iraqis used WMDs on our troops. Thank God this was not the case.

A UN force could never have the capability or flexibility to deal with the situation and it will be a long time before an Iraqi military and police forces can stop street crime, much less suicide bombers. We will need a costly US presence in Iraq for many years.

Our post Vietnam military has demonstrated the flexibility to deal with constantly evolving threats. They will find a way to deal with the suicide bombers and whatever the next threat is. Hopefully there are at least a few Iraqis able to see and take advantage of a unique opportunity develop prosperous and peaceful country. For the moment I am cautiously optimistic.

 

Hell we've lost less people in that war than we do in that length of time just from normal training and operations. It still sucks but that is the truth of it.

 

It should be remembered, though, that 9-11 caused 3000 deaths with no use at all of WMD. It's not necessarily the amount of weaponry, but the determination to inflict damage that is a threat.

Chances are that no part of the middle east will be anything close to civilized in the next 100 years, nevermind 5. Things will improve in Iraq in the next 5 years, but it will never be anything close to a democracy. Worldwide, most countries without a history of democratic rule seem to be incapable of sustaining anything close to one. It just isn't in their historic mind-set.

 

The problem is that you cannot keep attacking people based on what you believe they might do if you don't.

Anyway, I agree with you on the future of the middle east except for one thing: the chances of Iraq been better off in five years are not that great. There aren't too many underdeveloped countries where several ethnic groups live in harmony. Especially when religious tensions are involved and weapons are widely available. I hope I am wrong.