1099s coming from paypal in 2011

I have sent as a gift many times and received gifts via PP and I have never been charged and the other end has never been charged. This is a way to get around the 3% fee. You do not want to do this when you are paying for something you just bought though (ebay,BBS, craigslist). Reason being is you cannot contest the payment if the seller doesnt ship it. So unless you trust or know the person don't pay as a gift.


This is not for commercial this if for individual paypal acounts

 

thats why i like email money transfers or good ol cold hard cash!!. i hope canada doesnt decide to pull that crap.

 

Fee's are only charged(to the sender) for sending a "gift" via paypal if a credit card is used. If you use your checking account, neither party is charged.

 

and that includes paypal credit account.

 

Yes they are. You're just cheating by not paying the tax owed. Or collecting and remitting. Sorry.

That's about it. They just want to keep the honest people honest and bust the chops of the dishonest ones.

 

It's the buyer's responsibility if you (the seller) aren't doing it. And they want you to do it. And yup, they'd prefer you collect and remit to every state in which you have a buyer.

 

Not according to the Missouri Dept of Revenue. They said that I only need to collect and submit sales tax in the state where I have a physical presence. Any cross border sales are the responsibility of the buyer...according to my state, I'm doing it 100% by the book. Can't be too careful these days...I believe in paying what the government believes they are owed.

You guys sure can give a guy a scare with this stuff.

 

No, I said they want you to do it. And they do. You get big enough and you'll have other state Revenue Departments sending you letters 'requesting' that you collect and remit for customers in their state.

You are not absolutely required (yet) to do so unless you have a nexus in that state (like you can't get find and jailed for tax fraud if you don't). But they absolutely most certainly wish that you would, and if you become of sufficient size, it will be suggested that you do so. A lot.

After that you'll get the information requests to make sure you don't have a nexus in whatever state, then the in-office visits by the auditors. But no, like you said, unless you have an actual physical presence (nexus) in that state, you are not required to collect and remit.

The question is at what point does it become easier for you to do it rather than deal with not doing it?

 

Never.

Do you have any idea how many taxing jurisdictions there are? In the great state of Taxesota, we have the state sales tax (6.5%), the local tax (.5% in Duluth, Minnesota and I believe Brainerd), the Arts & Environment tax (.25% statewide), the transit tax (.25% in metro counties excluding Carver), and the Twins Ballpark tax (.15% in Hennepin County).

If I were in KCMO selling a widget to someone in Osseo, MN, what tax rate would I charge? Where would I remit?

It will never be easier to "comply" with voluntary requests from outstate taxing authorities to become agents of collection for them...but I believe that those requests will soon *not* become voluntary. I envision a "federal tax" on interstate sales, since that is sorta their purview (so they believe) through the commerce clause.

Revolt! Especially you, scotth, you're the most revolting!

 

You say that now...

It may have come up once or twice, yeah.

Well, you either get a big book and look it up based on address and ZIP code and do your best...or you buy one of the computer subscription setups that do it for you instantly while you're keying in the order into your sales system.

Usually to the individual state Department of Revenue. They remit to those districts you detailed.

That's because you haven't been through the process. It is infinitely easier to purchase the subscription, collect the tax, and remit to even each of the 50 states on whatever period they want it--which becomes entirely automated once you set it up--than it is to respond to even three or four requests from auditors at those state Departments of Revenue. Once it escalates to action, you'll wish you just bought the damn system.

Which is exactly what they're counting on. The reason this isn't more well-known is because it takes a person at a state agency to initiate these things, and people at state agencies are in short supply these days.

Yeah, probably. States are losing billions in uncollected state sales taxes. Before Amazon, it wasn't a big deal. Now it is.

I'm all for holding the line and refusing to act as a collection agent if you don't absolutely have to. I'd just point out that like every other coin there's a flip side to this one too, and it's local merchants. They're already hammered by paying for the storefront. It's a bummer for them that they're looking at a further 5-10 percent competitive disadvantage just because either their customers are dishonest, or worse that they're advertised against when their competitors openly claim that purchases from their online store are free from sales tax.

It is what it is, but I'm at least all for the first auditees being the ones that have "NO SALES TAX!!!" on their web sites.

It's probably also worth noting that more than a few state Departments of Revenue have staff sampling from Amazon et al and are sending out tax notices to purchasers.

The odds of being one of those guys are probably as slim as the odds of Howlie getting noticed by the Florida Department of Revenue, but it sucks to lose that particular lottery, I'd think.

Hey, as soon as someone tells me 1) who'll pave the roads, and 2) that we'll be allowed to shoot the worst of the Republicans, I'll pull out my tanker boots and drive the Abrams myself. I'm no more a fan of what we have than the next guy. But that doesn't mean I want it to get worse.

 

Please tell me where you find such information. Am I paying an "voluntary" tax?? I would like to know...

 

And I say it again...it will *never* be easier than tearing up a letter from a taxing authority that has no authority over your business. Until the rules of the game get changed, you can tell them exactly what part of your anatomy is in desperate need of a kiss.

So you're an idiot. I'll refrain from expressing surprise.

That's brilliant. Of course, they never change the tax rates during the year, and every taxing authority taxes the exact same things. You do realize that in MN, clothing isn't taxed at all. Prescription eyeglasses are taxed at 2%. Guess your magical book would be just dandy if you only sold one item that was universally either taxable in every jurisdiction or not. Otherwise, you'll spend a hell of a lot of time on each sale trying to determine whether or not it's taxable, what that tax rate should be, and if you'd rather just fellate a .45 instead of dealing with the bullshit (yeah...sooo much easier than telling a non-jurisdictional taxing authority to pound sand )

Which means you filing every detail of every transaction to the taxing authority of every state you've made a sale in for the filing period.

This is easier than telling the taxing authority to eat a dick while dying in a fire, how exactly?

You're an idiot. Again.

Or, that state agencies are not authorized to compel a business not under the jurisdiction of their state's laws to do *anything*.

And eBay. And Craigslist. And the local paper. And every other transaction that the goobermint douches don't know about. Funny how we came full circle in only 235 years, huh?

Life's a bitch. Not particularly germane to this conversation, but thanks for parading your straw man around like he was relevant.

Who will be doing the auditing? Those non-jurisdictional taxing authorities? Can you say "come back with your search warrant" and "summary dismissal"?

What? You mean they're not sending tax notices to Amazon? Why is that again? No jurisdiction to bring action? Odd, I would swear that was the argument I was making. Damn, I love it when the idiots in goobermint realize I'm right.

What is the FL DoR going to do to Howlie? Push him off the St Louis Arch? Or will they stomp their feet and make noise and intimidate a bunch of idiots (can you guess of whom I'm speaking) into risking lawsuits and/or lost business for trying to charge sales taxes on transactions they have no legal right to charge?

So stop enabling them to make it worse.

 

I'll just say that that attitude is a direct result of never having had to deal with the issue. Once you have, that idealism gets tempered. A lot.

In fact, most of your response just says you're unfamiliar with the process. Which is nice for you.

Because I'm aware there are different sales tax rates in different areas? That's not even a good insult.

In the bad old days before computers, the few businesses (Sears, mostly) concerned had whole departments to deal with this. The tomes (and they were thick) were re-issued each time a taxing authority made a change. There were a lot of mistakes made, and the taxing authorities just accepted that, and made adjustments on stuff caught during periodic audits. Those books also listed--in detail--the different rates for different classifications of goods by authority, with their associated rates (if applicable). It's not like you're the first person to have given this any thought.

There are people in the world capable of dealing with complex detail. You let those people deal with these issues.

And you also seem to think this is a 'theory' that's never been tried. It's been done, and been done since there were mail order houses. A lot.

And now, of course, it's all on computer, and while it used to be a CD re-issued each time a change was made (which, I'll add, is much less frequent than your hyperventilation made it seem. Once a year is a lot), now they're all on-line and they update just like any other software update. I guess you're not leaving the cabin much these days, Kaczynski (though you've obviously got a computer...strange), but technology's come a long, long way since you went hermit.

Not even hardly. Some states sales tax returns are a single page.

Which isn't to say it's easy to get to that page at all. But those Revenue Departments don't want that information on an on-going basis any more than you want to give it to them. Where would they keep it?

It's extremely easy to tell them to get bent. The first time. Even the second time. After they actually show up at your office, it becomes a slightly larger pain in the ass.

I'd just say your whole response to my post illustrates how very little idea you have about what we're talking about here. Jurisdiction? Google it. It's not like I'm 'proposing' it 'might' happen. It is happening, and has been for almost as long as states have had sales taxes. You're ignorant of this issue and an idiot for trying to argue about something you know very little about (if we're calling names).

You said you were from Maine, right? You should drive up to Freeport next time you're home and visit L.L. Bean. And if not there, I know they've got a fulfillment center in Chicago if that's closer to home for you. You tell them how little they have to pay attention to jurisdictional issues. In fact, go tell their General Counsel and internal audit liaison office. No--better yet, tell the FDoR auditors that live in Chicago and work only on L.L. Bean. I'm sure they'll be thrilled to know you've got this whole issue sorted for them. What were they thinking?

(Note: I'm actually guessing that L.L. Bean still isn't charging sales tax on out-of-state purchases. But if they're not (or not building the cost into the price and remitting to Florida) you can bet they've got a state auditor up there, at least part-time.)

 

I must have missed your law school degree and years of experience at national retailers--that's why I'm arguing with you. I should have known better. Like I said, don't believe me, go see them for yourself.

No, something the size of Amazon doesn't get a tax notice, they get their very own full-time auditor sent from the home state. The person lives and works in where ever (probably Seattle) and draws a paycheck from (again, for example) the Florida Department of Revenue. His (or her) whole job is to look up Amazon-fulfilled sales to Florida addresses and send tax notices to the buyer and follow the payment (or sometimes the last part is done by people in Florida).

A tax notice is just for the small(er) fish. You get big enough and you get your very own person.

Yeah, like I said, best you talk less and listen more on this issue.

I actually used to know one of the FDoR guys (well, girl) assigned to Lands End. She loved it. But then Lands End went to Sears and they just gave up the nexus fight and started charging sales tax on everything.

They use the computer subscription system though, I bet. Not books. Do you have hot running water in that thing, or are your anti-government screeds composed by candlelight and delivered by yak to someone that posts them here?

To Howlie? A (I assume) one-guy shop a second-rate town with a fourth-rate Yankees farm club (sorry Howlie But at least you're just a few hours from a real town. )? Probably nothing. If he were to come to someone's notice and that person thought he rated something, he'd get a letter, and that letter would be very intimidating and just this side of what could be called lies. It would say something to the effect that they've noticed he's selling to Florida and that sales to Florida are taxed at 6%, and it would intimate that he's required to collect and remit because he's got a nexus there. If Howlie wasn't up on his game, he'd freak out, and if FDoR got lucky, he'd start to collect and remit.

I used to not believe this every worked on anyone, but I assume it must, because just like other junk mail it has to work on someone or they'd stop doing it.

See, this is why you should want more taxes. Your mom's claimed careful attention has failed you here, and a better public school education would have taught you that Kansas City is on the other side of the state from St. Louis. Far too far to drive him over there just to try and scare him.

And school might not have taught this, but:

1) You can't get pushed off the Arch--there's no way to get 'outside' of it and there's no way to climb it, and,

2) As a general rule, they don't let those hayseed goatherds into St. Louis. Maybe when that farm club comes to play a real team, but even then there's almost no blue in God's Own Ballpark.

That is exactly the first thing they do, since they don't have an actual legal action to force him to remit and collect without a nexus.

See, I think you think you're talking about me. But you're so clueless, and I know I'm so not, that I really just want to fill you in on this one. This summer, you can tell me how to wire a new panel box in my garage without electrocuting myself.

They never actually threaten that that I've seen. Probably because that might actually get them in trouble, and they also generally don't sue, at least right away. And they'd never try to cause you to miss a sale--at least until they shut you down. After all, that's what they're taxing. C'mon, Dern, at least try and keep up. Is this thing on?

Well, that's really the crux of the matter, isn't it? The actual law is pretty clear on this issue--no nexus, no requirement to collect and remit. But they're not having much luck on the individual remittances, and De Intertubes is making a serious dent in in-state sales anymore. The income isn't coming in like it should if everybody was honest. So they go for the most effective way to get the money, and that's at the vendor. So they'll either try and prove you do have a nexus, or scare you into thinking they might, or try and hassle you into doing what they want, or as a last-ditch (like with Lands End, or Amazon) send someone up to just go after your customers from your end.

Because they do have a legal right to tax those sales, as well they should. They just don't have the right to make you collect for them. Even though they really (like I said before you tried to get involved--not too brightly--in this discussion) wish that you'd do it for them.

Pfft. Believe me dude, story of my life. The real problem, though, is that the government workers aren't the real problem. It's the idiots that voted in the morons that put the workers there, and demand services they don't want to pay for.

As soon as we get this pesky universal suffrage repealed, things will go much more swimmingly!

 

They got wise to the trick & changed it....paypal is gonna get their cut one way or the other !!!

Don't believe me ??? ....just send me $10 & see what happens

 

Well, after all your bluster and posturing, you still admit I'm right.

Must have hurt. A lot.

Oh, and to fill you in on a little bit of trivia on the taxing authority in the state of Maine (I haven't lived there since '94, but still manage to chit-chat occasionally with folks from the coast), they do collect ME sales tax on purchases shipped out of the state. If memory serves, they also compute taxable sale amount on the amount of the actual product, PLUS the shipping charges.

So, what have we learned from this? That FL doesn't have any authority to compel Howlie to collect and submit sales tax for sales delivered to FL residents, that there's absolutely nothing of note on the western edge of MO to compare to the threat of being tossed off the St. Louis Arch (they still have operational helicopters in StLMO to get him up there, or did they deport them all so you could claim it's impossible to get outside at the top of the arch?), and that you've got an impressive memory for the details of where I've lived and what I've done...creepy, even. Should I consider a restraining order?

So, in conclusion, you've corroborated my positions and yet continue to argue. Strange indeed.

 

Which information?

Sales taxes are pretty simple: all taxable sales (or uses) are a taxable event. The buyers (or users) are required to pay tax on or about the time of that event at the rate appropriate to the local taxing authority.

(You gotta pay sales tax when you buy most stuff.)

State departments of revenue have noticed getting seven million people to track, calculate, and remit sales tax on the stuff they buy is a dicey proposition, so they all passed laws requiring vendors to collect it for them, then remit it to those Departments of Revenue. This also means fewer actual returns and a smaller number of individual payments to track.

(Your state DoR knows you'll lie your ass off if they try and get you to pay the tax, so they make the store do it instead. As a side benefit, there are fewer stores to keep an eye on, versus millions of consumers.)

Pre-internet, incidences of a vendor being in one state and the buyer being in another were much more rare. Most sales were made face-to-face, and where ever the sale happened, the tax was collected. So buyers never even had to think about the tax they were paying, outside of bitching that it was too high. Legislators also had little need to deal with the thorny issue of interstate sales, since there weren't comparatively that many, and it is a fairly complex issue.

(Before buying stuff online, all you had to do was cough up the money, and you did if you wanted to walk out of the store with the stuff. So nobody ever had to deal with it, which is good, because your local congressmen tend to be lazy bastards.)

Internet sales, though, have increased exponentially. So much so that buyers aren't buying stuff locally (and paying tax in it) to a large enough extent that state budgets have felt the squeeze.

(You and all your friends are shopping at Amazon enough now that your state is feeling the pain from collecting less sales tax.)

Technically, the buyer owes the sales tax. Historically, this was gotten around by making the vendor a de facto agent of the state, relieving you of the burden of thinking about it. Mail-order sales were conceptually dealt with by 'notifying' all state residents that sales taxes were their responsibility on mail-order sales, then going out for a nice drink and not worrying about it, since they number of those sales was comparatively small.

(You (the buyer) are really the one on the hook for sales taxes, you just never noticed it because you paid it at the store. And no one's ever come looking for it before on mail-order stuff, so you didn't know. They never came looking because there used to be just two of you, and the Revenueers just followed the staggering mailman to your house after he dropped of your Sears Log Cabin kit.)

Now that on-line sales have become such a large part of commerce in general, states are stepping up their education systems, notifying buyers that they are actually the responsible party, and correspondingly stepping up their enforcement and notification activities.

(Because you spend so damn much at Amazon, and because your state is hurtin' for cash, they're looking for their money. They're making sure you are aware of the law--which is that the onus is technically on you--and they're going to try and scare you into compliance.)

Basically, tax is owed on all sales, and no, it's not a 'voluntary' tax (I'm not really sure what a voluntary tax is, though). Legally, you owe your state sales tax on stuff you buy online. You're supposed to download a form from their website, fill it in, and send in a check.

What are the odds you'll be caught if you don't? More than they used to be, which means it's increased to maybe 1 in 20,000 now. And--not that I'm at all advocating tax evasion--they're still pretty laid back on the penalties. If you happen to be in a sample from an online vendor, you'll get a notice. Just pay it and be done with it, since, while (as Dern Kaczynski noted) they don't have a leg to stand on with regard to the people that sold you the stuff, it's well-settled that they can hammer your ass as the buyer.

(Thank you, and have a pleasant tomorrow.)

 

About what? I never said he had to collect and remit, just that they'd like him to. And that if he were big enough, it is faaaaaaaaaaar easier for him to do so than to deal with them about it.

If we're having an argument, it's on that point, and on that point I am right and you have no idea what you're talking about. I triple-dog dare you to ignore a taxing entity. It'll be cool for a year or two while they get around to you. Maybe four or five if they're busy. Then you'll wish you just took the easy way out.

I dunno. I don't have an issue with you being correct. I just also happen to know that I am. If you want to say you're right, too (see: "Retreat and Declare Victory"), I'm cool with that. But you'd get sued for malpractice and have your license pulled were you to advocate telling a taxing authority to pound sand, and you'd be out of clients when you advised them that was the easy way out. The jurisdiction thing sounds like my kid when he's talking out of his ass--you can say it all you want as a tradesman. Get back to me when you actually sell stuff to people out of state, and do it in such volume that you draw someone's notice.

What you suggested--on a professional level, not a crazy-man-howling-in-the freezing-north-woods level, was retarded, to put it simply. Never--ever--tell a taxing entity to pound sand or ignore a letter. That just pisses them off. If you're right, tell them so, and why, and they'll go away. If--as in this instance--they're determined to hassle you, it quickly becomes easier to acquiesce. On sales taxes with large-enough entities, they are determined to put the hassle on. Since you have no experience with this, you'll have to take my word for it.

Reaaaaaaaaly... That'd be interesting. What are they using as a basis for that? I'd imagine L.L. Bean would scream bloody murder, since the responsible entity (they buyer, like you've noted) isn't in-state. I'd like to see something on that. I wonder if Bean is building in those costs--I just looked at an invoice from stuff we bought, and there's no tax on it. So either it's built-in, or they're not charging it.

No, just that they can make him wish that he did.

Note: you seem to have a bad case of 'need to be right-itis', so note that I also said that I don't foresee them screwing with his individual setup. Just that they could. Which is true.

The top of the monument--being an, ahem, 'arch' is kinda, uh, 'slope-y'. It's also maybe eight feet wide, there's nothing to hold on to, it's stainless steel, and it's windy. I think you could toss someone out of a helicopter over the Arch, but anyone standing up there would be upright about as long as you are when the misses decides it's time to kick your ass. Maybe a few seconds. Probably not, especially since a helicopter would bring rotor wash with it. Hm, with the rotor wash, I'd say definitely not. Maybe if you're hooked on to something.

So for practical purposes (like two thugs trying to scare a presumably-struggling Howlie) no, it is impossible. And, really, not even necessary. Just make him watch the Royals or the Chiefs, or make him eat some of that gloppy stuff they put on what they call barbecue there. He'd flip as quickly as you'd stay upright when...well, you get the idea.

As a side note--do you have Famous Dave's barbecue there? We've got one here, and they claim to be from Minnesota. Much like Carlos and his veganism, that tells me so much more about the problems y'all have up there than anything else. That's what passes as 'cue there? I'm just...so, so sorry.

Nah, just a decent memory. It's how I can win arguments against the terminally insane...not that I'm naming any names. At all.

I have? When? Since that Unibomber seems to be kicking in, I'll just re-state--your plan for dealing with notices from a taxing entity is total horseshit, and no one should do it. You also seem to be unaware of how those entities conduct business.

There. Happy?

Or didn't you come in here for an argument? Just a contradiction?

 

You boys got a lotta time on your hands, huh...