Tragic DC-4 crash in Alaska

We had a tragic DC-4 crash in Fairbanks Alaska yesterday soon after takeoff. Two people died in the crash and fire; the plane’s cargo was 3200 gallons of fuel and the crew and witnesses reported it was on fire just before the crash. https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/avi...n-with-fuel-just-before-crash-near-fairbanks/

Unlike some of you, I don’t know much about airplanes, but this plane was first flown during WWII, 80 years ago. Is it common for folks to fly such old multi engine aircraft in commercial use? We certainly see a lot of old single engine planes up here, but this seemed unusual to me.

Also, the list of fatality crashes of DC-4s was sort of amazing to me. It’s a list that started in WWII and continued regularly from the 1940s, through the 1950s, 60s, 70s and even 80s although this (the last one on the list) was the only reported DC-4 crash in many years. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Douglas_DC-4
Is the length of that list unusual for planes of that era? Was there ever an outcry similar to the Max today about the DC-4s safety? This isn’t my area but it certainly seems much different and safer these days with modern equipment, jets, etc.

 

Those planes were built like trucks way back when weight savings and duty cycles were considered priorities of design by the engineers who drafted all the parts for assembly. So long as the airplane is properly maintained and passes inspection, it’s not unusual to keep it flying. The B-52 last rolled off the production line in the late 60’s and they’re still at the tip of the spear, strategically, at least. Those jets will be flying for a longer, with everything but the airframe itself having been replaced a few times.

 

My omission - duty cycles and weight savings were NOT major conditions of design back then. Things were just built to work for the specified duty. Also, my father has about 50 hours flying one of those in USAF, for some reason.

 

Most of the bush planes are of that age, and older. They just need to be maintained. There will always be accidents, failures, and subsequent tragedies. Still sad, Ski

 

The Fairbanks airport is very cool as Everet's Air Cargo ond Fuel has a fleet of C-46, C-47 and DC-6 planes that they use to transport fuel and cargo to the remote villages. They pretty much cover the whole State as I have seen their planes in Anchorage and Kenai, too. They also have a good selection of planes sitting around for parts or refurb as needed. Kinda like vintage or Ducati racers that keep a stash of parts bikes around.

 

It is reported that it was a massive engine failure/explosion that may have taken off part of the wing. That thing has 4 air cooled 18 cylinder internally supercharged engines that were designed in the 30's, they're generally reliable but the parts are getting really old and hard to find. Even airplanes that are 40 years old are getting hard to find parts for.

 

They were also overbuilt as the designers didnt have FEA computer models and 60years of data to predict part life and things like that. So they did some math, added some safety factors and then doubled it....Thats why they still fly. And the DC-3's.

Also being un pressurized is a big deal...that is a huge amount of force not on the airframe.

And there isnt a plane you can buy new that can do what these do. Well there is but you cant buy it and its too much $$$. Its called the C130. You cant buy it...not new or new-ish. And Alaska air freight guys couldnt afford to fly it even if they were given an old one as a gift.

So they fly old WWII era up to 60s built planes and keep re-building them every 30-40 years.

This one sounds like an engine caught on fire and possibly exploded in flight. Never a good thing. RIP to the crew.

 

Is it economically viable at all to re-engine them with turboprops? Or you may as well just buy a new plane at that point?

 

There is a video out there it looks like it was hit with a missile. Incredibly violent explosion. Rip

 

the cost would be immense plus getting the feds to sign off on it.

There is a company out of Oshkosh that retrofits dc3’s with turbo props.

 

Basler. They actually rebuild them...lengthen the fuse, do some strengthening and modify the wings a tad, along with new avionics and the new turboprops.

There are a shit ton more DC3's in the world than C54's so it makes sense. The DC 3 is a perfect cargo/people backwoods/island workhorse and it will be flying for more than 100years here soon, in commercial service. Thats how great they got it.

These old WWII era planes used to be used for fire fighting, cargo etc and many still are. They pretty much quit the forest fire applications when they started breaking wings in 80's and 90's. There's a few converted airliner types but the need is so small the costs are relay high to build perfect FF plane from scratch. In the 60's the Canadians built one and ran 100-200 copies or something like that over 20 years or so...

You might be able to finally build a new DC3/C54 level cargo plane with modern techniques that wouldnt cost 30mil each. Maybe if you could get the the US, Canada, UK, the richer Asians and Africans to commit to buy enough and do a run you could make the numbers work on building a few hundred...but you need to keep the legacy aircraft6 guys out of it as they will just drive the costs up to the moon, with legacy costs...lol.

 

So, the important question is how can we make this Boeing's fault?

 

Those old airplanes can be a real handful, especially with an engine out. They are also usually flown by cargo haulers with very little money who routinely overload them, thus complicating any kind of emergency procedure.

Not saying that was the case this time, of course. Sucks for all involved.

@Linker48X that list of accidents is eye opening, and really shows you how far aviation safety has come- yet thanks to our news media, I bet if you asked 20 people on the street they would tell you now is the most dangerous time in air travel.

 

My brother (who hates flying) sent me this from his India business trip this morning.

 

What was your response ?

 

"Still with us?"

No response so far...

 

I would more concerned about the origin of the flight crew than the Max itself. Hopefully if something goes wrong the crew isnt very religious, that way they keep flying instead of saying eff it and praying until the plane hits something hard.


Prayers for your brother...

 

I would have asked for something of his i had always wanted. #Justincase

 

He made it to his destination.

 

In the biblical sense, or still on this plane of existence?