How much cheaper is racing a small bike really?

First, thanks for your service I see in your signature block. Did your active duty time ever take you out to Okinawa? I’m an AF guy, but obviously there’s a huge Marine presence out here. Nice avatar pic btw, that appears to be Turn 9 at Chuckwalla if my memory serves me.

Interesting perspective of what you would do if you could do it all over again. I don’t think it would be a perfectly clean break for me either, I think it would take me a good amount of time to mentally (and emotionally maybe?) transition from the intensity of a big bike to a little bike. I’m wondering if this forced almost-3 year hiatus from the track will help that transition if when I finally get back out there I’m starting back at square one to some extent no matter what bike I’m on. Not completely at square one, but after 3 years maybe even a Ninja 400 is gonna feel pretty fast.

I have suspension bits sitting here for my Grom, but through all this shelter in place and covid crisis nothing has changed for me, it’s still been business as usual, probably even busier than before due to my position. So I haven’t found time to get it all installed to get out in the empty parking lots with some cones to keep some skills up on the Grom. I may need to take some leave to finally get after that.

 

I endurance raced a 250 Ninja for several years. The thing weighed 290lb by the time I was done with it and I eventually threw a 300 motor in it. I bought two sets of Dunlop Alpha 13 MotoAmerica junior cup takeoffs for one season and only wound up using one set for the entire season of six 3 hour races. (minus 2-3 hours for when we ran rain tires). The bike was fantastic in the rain too. It had great front end feel and was a total hoot so I actually looked forward to riding in the wet. It so easy to stay ahead of the bike mentally. Major fun per dollar ratio! I've had a handful of Sv650s too and I like them for the cheap buy-in cost for an already prepped bike, but the tire bill is definitely more.

 

I can throw in an opinion from an experienced track day rider perspective. I rode a 2003 R1 for 11 years of track days. The last 4 or 5 years I was getting 6-7 days out of a front and 2-4 days out of the rear (depended on the track). Pirelli SC2 both ends. Just before last season I got a 2004 SV650. I had more fun on it and while I don't run a lap timer, I am pretty sure I set my fastest time on it down at NCBike in my 4th day on it. I was flying and dicing with the big bikes in EGT Advanced group. Nothing like having the throttle pinned with your knee on the deck! Then I took the R1 out for the last two sessions of the day and I am pretty sure I went even faster (keeping at least 90% of my SV corner speed). With that said, I am having more fun on the SV and the front and rear tires last about 6-7 days (SC1 front and SC2 rear). Not a big difference in fuel for me and I run pump gas, but compared to modern 1000s, my R1 doesn't use much fuel (it is all torque with a 10,800 cutoff).

If you keep your SV motor a SS build, they generally last a long time. The Superbike builds can be a lot more temperamental, so not much different than most motorcycle race engines.

I would probably be a mid-pack Amateur racer if I raced. A mid-pack expert racer will likely be going faster than me so I doubt you would get as many days out of a set of tires, but you would still probably get almost twice the days / races out of the rear compared to a 1000 and they are a bit cheaper as well. You will likely go through fronts just as fast. I think the 300/400s are a bit easier on the fronts because they are that much lighter.

Bottom line: It isn't going to make a massive difference in cost when looking at the total budget, but if you are stretching the budget to run the 1000, you might be in a comfortable place on a LWT or Wee bike.

 

I have to disagree with your cost assessment. There is a significant difference in cost for the total budget IMO. Part of the difference is in assessing what you actually need to get the job done to win. It's a waste of money to buy things that are not going to be utilized to their full potential. For example, I thought about what tires it should take to win endurance races with my 300 Ninja. I really liked the Pirelli Supercorsas for my bike, but decided to try the Alpha 13s (now I'd use the Q3+ tires) to see if they would get the job done at the same time being prepared to shell out the dough if they weren't up to the job. I did have to adapt my riding style a bit but we were able to keep the competition covered and we consistently won, so I saved a bunch of money. If I were sprint racing, I would make a different tire choice, but I'd fully expect to have the tires last a long time and even have a different strategy of tire management. Most likely I would have a set of wheels with practice tires that would take the bulk of riding time. Then I'd have an identical set of wheels and tires that would only be used for the actual sprint races so they would get much less wear and last at lot longer while still maintaining a high level of grip. In the end that would save money because small bike rims tend to be pretty cheap. Gas consumption is much less too.

 

No comparing the budget of ultralight bike racing (i consider and SV650 a lightweight bike) to 600's or 1000's. Tire budged for 600's and 1000's is gonna be basically the same. You will get half a season from a set of UL tires. Some use the take off fronts of 600's and 1000's for the rears on the wee bikes. Not as likely to crash them, less expensive parts, most that get into this class aren't looking for every HP tid-bit to buy. I know guys that have been doing it on the same bike or bikes for years. they look pretty rough, but they love the racing ..

I think the fun factor can be amazing, but will depend on the track, and the number of racers out there you can mix things up with.

 

In 2016 I won the expert GTL championship on one of the SVs on 1 set of Pirelli slicks. Granted 2 of the race weekends out of 8 were in the wet (put rains on) and I didn't have to race the last round because I had the points locked. So essentially 5 race weekends on 1 set of slicks. I flipped the rear 5 or 6 times. The last time I flipped it the the damn thing went on the rim like a wet noodle which made me nervous. Lasted through the race though.

 

Congratulations on the win. What is GTL? I’m guessing some kind of lightweight class?

 

If it is what I think it is, it's like lightweight solo. With CCS, they count toward a championship. Well, that's how it was way back when.

 

Same as lighweight solo in WERA. 25 minute sprint race +1 lap.

 

So, like 130 race laps (plus practice???) on a set of Pirellis? As a notoriously cheap SOB I'm in awe...

 

Last yr I got new tires simply because the old ones had been used for 1.5 yrs. Im sure they would have been fine for another few rounds at my pace.

 

Hey! I did spend a year on Okinawa back in 92-93. My Marines were stationed on K5R as Red Patchers at the time. Lots of cool memories from there, especially the long PT runs from Camp Foster to Kadena. Good call on the Avatar! I worked for TrackDaz for many years and spent a lot of time at Chuckwalla, one of the best tracks I've ever ridden.

Interestingly enough, I returned from my 06 deployment to Iraq and jumped on a SV because I thought I would save some money and enjoy smaller class racing. The grids were full, but not many were stock, so the money added up quickly trying to get where everyone else was. Numerous blown motors (turn 2 Big Willow, yikes!) made me miss the big bike (never had an issue other than maybe some talent and balls, again, Big Willow). Some folks go to SV's/smaller bikes and absolutely love it and do save money, just wasn't the case for me.

Thanks for your service, I remember chomping at the bit to get home so I could ride/race again!! Don't worry, you'll be back before you know it!!

 

I was thinking about this thread again yesterday and how the gap between these two answers might be one of the biggest I have observed on the beeb in two decades. It really shows how the Internet can be both an incredible resource and a dangerous tool.

 

Fuck practice.

 

I'm going to chime in as the fat guy who rides little bikes.

I race vintage bikes and have dabbled with SVs, and I have raced a RZ with Modern suspension (I know not the same as a modern bike). I have to say my little twin shock 350cc 2 stroke single is the most fun/$ I have ever had. The SV is very fun and I love endurance racing them. but I really do think I have more fun riding the smaller bike. I find my self pushing the smaller bikes so hard and its so rewarding. I'm cutting my racing program back to my small vintage bike for Sprint racing, and I'll endurance race an SV. But there is just something incredibly fun about being able to stay pinned with your knee on the ground pushing as hard as you can.

I find that I get my enjoyment on the track from my brake marker to when I stand the bike back up. Not down the straight away. I guess the mentality is, its not how fast you go, its how little you slow down.

 

Maybe I'm in the minority here but little bikes don't appeal to me. I jumped up to the big bikes from 600s, partly because I was getting murdered on the straights, and didn't want to spend thousands getting a supersport motor build. Plus running MR12 to keep up with the Joneses. Sure I still get beat down the straight, but I find it to be a big difference between being down 10-15 HP on a 600, and being down 10-15 HP on a 1000.

 

The great thing about a small bike and especially a 125gp bike is when you fuck up a corner and lose the rpm and drive out you learn to not do it again very quickly. There's no wack the throttle and make up for what was lost. It's about corner speed, keeping momentum, and tying it all together for a good lap.

 

@HPPT, this is a fine example you pointed out. I couldn't agree more. Laughing out loud (I'm not working nor pressed for time, so I'll just start typing that out).

@90kacoupe, I'm guessing you fall in the following classes: GP, vintage and/or LWT SS(?)

Couple of questions:
- dollar-wise, what would you say is the typical racing budget per competition class you're racing in (if one just wants to have someone to race against on the track)?
- are tires the biggest expenditure in those classes?
- if one races small bikes part-time, infrequently, as the OP or someone suggested elsewhere, is there any danger (beyond the obvious) with pushing hard on small bikes trying to shake the rust and get back to form?

I'm curiously following this thread as I have thought about getting my race license and thinking smaller displacement racing.

Thanks!

 

P.S., see attached...just planting an earworm, if you will.

 

When the CSBK series was on Pirellis it was amazing to see the cheap ass dads not buying tires for their kids in the CBR 250 races. Many would not buy a new set over two seasons of CSBK and x amount of club races. It got so bad that we found some cheap dads were buying take offs from other dads for their kid's CSBK races. At one race they found a 3 yr old set on a kids bike. And guess what? That kid set a new class lap record on like the last lap of the race. So then CSBK figure it was time to set minimum standards and have the dads buy a set or two per season.