You'll love Justin Neyra's quote

I didn't read the hole thread when posting my thoughts. I agree with Sean on page 8 for the most part. I don't need an incentive to get people on the track.

It's not the racers making trackday guys hesitant about racing it's the coaches if anything IMO. Most coaches have never raced so they have no experience on the subject only passed on information. Great riders that could race just haven't or don't want to. I always encouraged racing and how easy it was to do it myself.

 

Ohh boy, I sense about 950 words being typed somewhere in Africa right now.


Sup broome!!

 

I saw that and decided to leave it alone. I dont know how coaches are or could keep people from racing. And more importantly, he and I coach in completely different regions, so we obviously have different experiences.

I disagree with the comments and had a long post typed out, but changed my mind. Mostly because in the middle of typing my post i started playing Pacman and lost my train of thought.

But most importantly...

 

we all know lowly track day riders and coaches don't have the skill level to race with the all mighty racers.

 

Most td coaches at the minimum will grid up and pretty much DOMINATE the novice grids, leading to the usual end of year sandbagging accusations and some sort of scaled back expert season and the imminent retirement of sorts.

The next level of coaches- you will find a bunch that can top 5/win some expert club races, even Nationals.

Then there's that small group (like G 97) who have had some success qualifying and even top 10 results in AMA Pro, even the Superbike class!!!

On the other hand, you have some orgs that have coaches who are beginner/intermediate riders (sometimes even holding a novice/am racing license), actually coaching other beginner/intermediate riders, sometimes they'll even give helpful hints to expert license holding participants lol. I mean, it's not THAT hard to advise "more throttle, less brake" or "I bet you could shave some time if you got on the throttle just a smidge earlier" or "you should try trail braking" lol.

 

Contrary to what some people believe, there are coaches who have a passion for teaching and helping others. There are coaches who put a lot of time, effort and money into helping others...simply because they love to do it.

There have been many weekends when I haven't turned a single lap "for myself"...and I have some of my best track-related memories from some of those weekends.

I have done days with several orgs and i know there are some shitty coaches out there. I know there are guys out there who are just looking for free track time. But people shouldnt assume most coaches are like that. The negative stereotypical comments towards coaches are just as aggravating (to me personally) as the negative stereotypical comments towards track day riders.

 

occasional td coach .. maybe. Most ? i'm not so sure about that.
I see some td coaches that, ready for this, don't even race and may NEVER have raced or only did a few races. They usually are decent riders though, with a good understanding of getting around a track safely (all that is really needed to enjoy a track day! ) They simply have a (as CB mentioned) passion for the sport, and are interested in seeing others enjoy it too. Some "students" are just people that are freaking out over the prospect of riding on a track, and are soothed by having a rider (not even in the zip code of race winning pace) be in front of them so they can follow. kind of like a rolling brake marker.. so the new rider doesn't get to ahead of themselves.

Instructors for track days put themselves in harms way it would seem, as we lost Rick Shaw at Daytona this year who was instructing at the time.

 

I meant most that race... I'm from the midatlantic where Nesba and TPM coaches who raced usually did pretty damn good on the novice grids, some were no slouches as experts as well.

I should have said "In the Midatlantic/Southeast between 2000-2010, most of the Nesba and TPM coaches that raced..."

I don't doubt the passionate aspect one bit, no argument there. Sure you have a few that are out for self but once they realize that 15-20 twenty min sessions at various speeds, they'll realize QUICKLY that hustling track time ain't what they thought it would be.

 

Being able to "flip the switch" between coaching and racing is something that takes practice; it is definitely a learned skill. I struggled with it the first couple of years and in the beginning I found that coaching slowed me down. But I do ok now.

 

i found it incredibly difficult to "flip the switch" .. and found when i helped out, i had to instruct one day, then ride another. otherwise i was just rolling around.

 

I found that I can use coaching to "engrain" the fundamentals. As you know, if somebody is riding at 10/10ths they aren't learning anything...they are surviving. Well when coaching, most of the time we are riding at 6/10's. So why not take advantage of it?

When you are coaching, somebody is always watching you. So you can't use poor fundamentals, poor/lazy BP, etc. You have to try to do it right all the time so you can "lead by example". Well after a while, muscle memory develops.

When JD and I started working together and he would give me different things to work on, I would work on those things when I was riding behind other people at a reduced pace (and I still do it). So now when racing, I don't have to think about have my feet in the right position, moving my butt off the seat prior to corner entry, having a good "screwdriver" grip, looking far ahead through the corner, getting my upper body down, dropping my head and standing the bike up on corner exits, etc. I can look at pictures from race weekends and my BP looks good...and im not consciously trying to do it right or focusing on it. That is just how I ride.

The way i see it, any track time can be beneficial. There is ALWAYS something I can be working on, practicing, experimenting with, etc...even at 6/10ths. Some people think track time is only helpful if they are riding at race pace (those are usually the people who don't like track days). But that isn't the case.

Edit: of course this is just my opinion. YMMV.

 

Luckily for me, most coaches HATED coaching the intermediate group but I found coaching the "I" group quite addictive, especially when I'd find a couple of riders that were decent with the speed but waaaaaaaaaay out of control. I'd shape them up over a few sessions and then let them test the open/advanced group at a much more spirited pace and after they realized they weren't as fast as they thought they were, THAT'S when the lightbulb came on. This also allowed me to stay within 3-5secs of my novice racing pace which I didn't find hard to return to come race time. I know a lot of coaches that would rather police and discipline those types while I'd rather do my best to keep them on the track with some tough love if I saw them making bonehead moves, along with showing them the other side.

The beauty of it all was when those same td riders that I helped found their way to FIRST/SECOND/THIRD CALL of the racing grid too! No better feeling than the feeling that you played a part in teaching and encouraging street riders that there is more to it than speedometer readings on the straightaway.

 

Safety is a selling point for racing when it comes to smaller bikes. People who don't like the speed differential between their 250/SV and literbikes at a track day like the notion of riding with bikes of similar speeds.

 

good point, but track days are a good tool for learning to get past lapped traffic in a race. Short sprint races don't allow much time to make up if you delay behind a lapped rider. TD sessions give you insight on anticipating the big differential in speeds and getting by safely. It's hard to pass a rider that is nearly the same pace you go, but it can be surprisingly awkward to pass a rider going way way slower if you haven't had some experience doing it.

 

IMO, when I was coaching at 6/10ths BP was clearly fake. I don't need to get off the bike at that pace. For me, it was much easier to coach the faster folks on track. That being said, I was elite enough to not have to coach the B/C class riders. Just NRS kids.

YMMV.

-jim

 

That is a valid point. Passing is also a learned skill and even in the Advanced group, there can be as much as a 10sec differential in lap times. It takes practice to be able to work through traffic, of varying speeds, and on varying sizes of bikes, while not coming off your own pace (relatively speaking).

 

True. And what gets even tougher is when you HAVE to be on line, regardless of the pace. When I am working for the Speed Academy and video'ing students, I have to stay within 1-2 bike length of them...but on the line...all the time...regardless of the pace. Because when the video is reviewed in the classroom, they need to be able to see the difference. Like, they can see where I started to turn in but they aren't. Or where I ran a tight line and they disappeared from the camera, but then they come back.

So I have to use good BP, and be on line...regardless of the pace. It sounds pretty easy, right. But the school is for the Intermediate and the Advanced groups. So at Barber, I might be video'ing somebody running :35's, then a few minutes later video'ing somebody running :55's, then :45's, then :37's, etc. And no matter what the pace, I have to be on line, use the appropriate amount of track on exit, use the correct turn-in point for that pace, so on and so forth. And like i said, I have to do all of that while never getting further than 1-2 bike lengths from them so the video will be beneficial.

To be honest, I enjoy it. It is challenging. And I know the students get a lot out of the video review sessions and I enjoy helping them.