You'll love Justin Neyra's quote

Where was that?

 

WERA had a Yamaha Seca Cup back in 96/97 or so.. Very similar to the SV Cup. IIRC though, it was straight production rules.

 

Dustin, Honda 500 Cup?

 

Thanks Larry, I give Justin major props. It takes much more effort to prep and qualify for a AMA SBK race than a track day.Just to get to 107% .When I started 30 yyears ago there were no track days, you had to get licensed and race. Typical squid track day responses by some. Besides I thought this was a racers forum.

 

It was about a year ago...I cant really recall where I read it all.

YESS!!!!!!!!

 

Mongo, you over at summit?

 

:up:

True on people not wanting to push, but I'm surprised by how many at TD's are comparing lap times to how they'd do if they were racing. It's a lot of people. If that bridge is made easier to cross as you said, all the better. At the end of the day, I think a large percentage of the A group would be interested in racing if they knew more about it.

 

I wondered the same thing. I hear TD guys always saying they want to go fast, xxx guy is faster than me but no ambition to race at all. I don't get it

 

Its a fact that track days are killing club racing in the UK. It has hurt club racing here as well. I agree that would be great to get these guys into racing through school, training and licensed. Dont agree turning loose riders on 1000s not properly set up with no training on a hot track. I have worked some of those events, its sketchy . Is a much better level even at club. Its kinda like the guy who goes drag racing Friday night and calls himself a racer. You have to pay your dues in this game and it takes alot of work to get white plates,so I guess its easy to critique results if you haven't been there. Ever seen Justins program? Bad ass , guys like this are great for the sport. As far as cup racing I love it. I have done RD, RZ, 500 cepter, Yamaha FZ, GSXR, 883 and some Aprillia 250. Kinda the same concept of he old Proddy class where all is on equal equipment.

 

The beauty of a td is that nobody knows you're tooling around due to the subjectivity. You're an absolute track GOD if you have a black nesba "A" sticker or orange "CR sticker"... Compared to club racing, there's not much different amongst those that pay the bills ie novices. Same bikes, same gear, same tracks, same flags, same faces. The biggest difference is the appearance of an objective outcome ie a race result along with lap times vs hearsay which is typically full of embelishment.

If WERA were to tap into the td market, most td orgs would be shaking in their boots. All wera would have to do is dumb down the tech requirements and offer some td racing at lunch or every third session or whatever (*minus transponders/mylaps results) with a few bucks and/or trophies for folks on the podium and there's your revenue builder!!!!

Bring back the ability to avoid the aneurysm creating and bursting question of "what's your laptimes?" and you just might be on to something. If the racer stays on the wera td side of things... all good, whatever. Now if they decide to pipeline to the wera racing side of things, even better. Or they can ride the fence and go back n forth.

Give riders options kinda like

Polo Ralph Lauren vs RRL vs Chaps vs Black label vs RLX vs purple label etc...

regionals/nationals/endurance and all the classes are great but..........

 

i see people saying track days are killing racing. I just think it would be really hard, if not impossible, to quantify how much track days are really hurting racing. To prove such a theory, you would have to prove the track day riders would be racing were it not for track days..

As many have already stated, some track day riders simply do not want to grid up, and charge into t1 with everyone else, and be forced to have a result posted at the end. For whatever reason, they just enjoy looking at their own lap timer, and brag to others that they are faster.. or getting better. It's POSSIBLE they would simply continue riding on the street only were it not for track days giving them an avenue to push OFF the street..

on the flip side of this, it is also hard to say how much track days HELP racing.. by getting riders interested in the sport gradually.. it's reasonable to assume that for every track day rider that will not race, there are some that will go racing once they get tired of riding around without much but bragging rights to show for the effort.

 

I know judging from the turnout at Jennings a couple weeks ago... Intermediate and novice had well over 20 bikes on the mock race grid. Intermediate was probably closer to 30.
I was in the track shop early Sun morning and there were 8 people wanting to rent leathers & assorted gear.
I couldn't believe my eyes... seriously the amount of folks that showed up for a Sunday mock race was crazy. On Saturday the track was a ghost town.
There were a shit load of street guys there. Many brought their "daily" riders. And yes... friends were telling each other how badly they were going to lose, etc. I worked on a handful of bikes just so they wouldn't crash themselves. Kinked up rusty chains, 50psi in tires, axles misaligned, brakes dragging like crazy, pinch bolts loose, etc... its like they didn't even consider the experience before showing up.

 

You could argue that TDs are killing racing. But, I think the way to look at it is that TDs offer less risk in solely the minds of the riders that do it. We all know that shit can happen at Novice pace as well as AMA Pro pace and you can end up in a pinewood box...

But, the track day rider is able to ride at leisure and at a pace that fits their ability and honestly, w/o pressure. Racing to us all is common and something we crave. The competition, the fear, the satisfaction from riding at your best against better riders and winning. Things like that make sense to us. But a track day guy feels that racing is too dangerous and that track days allow them to ride at a spirited pace, but in a controlled environment and at some pretty cool tracks across the US.

I had a guy that always rode Deals Gap. I was ALWAYS trying to get them into track days. Come to the track and ride vs down there. His response? He had a job and if he ran at the track, he would probably push too hard and get hurt and risk his job. He died in a crash at the Gap... But the same mentality holds for the track day guy.

You also need to remember that the Advanced groups are containing guys that talk tough, but when the cards fall, VERY few can run a race pace for 10 laps at a time. They like getting that number on their lap timer to show their buddies and post on Instagram, but being able to do that in a crowded environment with 10 other dudes trying for the same spot makes them nervous and amazingly enough (rolling eyes), they run a lot slower than they do at the track days...

I think WERA needs to dive into track days. I think they have credibility and can harness that customer to assist with the race weekend. It would certainly put a hurt on the track day orgs out there, but at the end of the day, it is a business and WERA needs to worry about itself.

Dunno, but at the end of the day, track day orgs get 120 plus customers every time they run a track day. Some a bit less, some a lot less depending on the place and the schedule. But the average is about 120 riders. All paying the $150-$200 per day. That's some decent revenue.

But I don't think track days kill racing. I think the objective needs to be targeting those track day riders and getting them to start racing. The hurdle isn't that the track days have more riders attending, but rather educating those customers that racing is pretty damn cool and something they need to consider. If WERA put on track days and with the partners they have and associates they know, they could provide a pretty bad ass experience and have a constant line to possibly pushing those riders into racers...

 

I am on the fence about track days vs. racing.

I can say that if WERA were to start doing track days I would strongly consider running them. I got my WERA race license in 2010 after running and coaching a few track days. I had raced for over 25 years offroad prior to this and was excited at getting back into 2 wheel competition.

I ran a total of 2 events with WERA and quickly realized that I was no longer the racer I had been, but I also discovered that due to health reasons I was not physically or mentally capable or racing. I was fine doing track days at a slightly more relaxed pace, but did not consider myself to be safe trying to run just that little bit harder.

The following year I went with a motoseries license based on the fact that my buddies were running both series and that I could run the track day on Saturday and help in the pits sunday. It never really worked out, but that was the plan.

I did run 1 race at Mid Ohio in 2011 and enjoyed every minute but my health and other work racing relate activities ruled out any more racing. I have only done a few track days since then but my health has steadily improved and I fully plan to get in a lot of track time in 2014. WERA offering a track day schedule would certainally sway my decision as to which org I would go with. No plans to run a full season, but I fully plan to race VMD as well as a few other events if I am fit.

I will say that I don't buy into the whole " I will do track days until I am good enough to race" nonsense. I learned more about going fast on a single weekend at Mid-O than 2 years worth of track days combined. I may have been slow... but I looked damn good doing it.

I am perfectly happy doing track days and racing myself... but I do miss turn 1.

 

Wanna get drunk at Talon?

 

I go to track days but this is the problem. Alot of TD riders never been to class or training to learn basic things like lines , flags, technique and most important safety . I am sensitive to this as I have seen to many get squashed unnecessarily. Also many of the bikes are in atrocious condition and have safety issues. Tech is very lenient and most bikes get pushed through. This creates un safe conditions. Been around long time and seen to much shit happen. Racing will force you to elevate your program and skill sets with some extra effort, it will be worth it.

 

Track days aren't killing racing just like racing isn't killing track days. There are a lot of guys who race and do track days, and there are a lot of guys who only do track days.

The fact is some people are really interested in racing and some just aren't, and I'd say most of the time ego, or fear of where they would stack up has very little to do with it. The truth is if you don't really care about where you would stack up in a race then what's the point? For those guys track days are a much easier way to ride on the track. No school, no license, minimal tech, no class structure (in terms of bike type and modifications, tires, etc), and more track time.

Another thing to consider when searching for answers to this question is insurance. Many policies exclude injury or death caused in a timed racing event. Some people worry about the ramifications of getting hurt "racing" in terms of how their employer will look at it, and even family. And, even if they are just as risky, trackdays may seem less so, even to people who are participating in them.

Knowing a lot of people who ride just trackdays though, I'd say the main answer just lies in the fact that many don't have an interest in going racing for a variety of very valid reasons. They just want to go to the track with friends and ride.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that WERA track days would generally be perceived as race practice, and this might not attract the riders who need nudging to get into racing, and I also don't think it would attract the guys who aren't interested at all. On the other hand, there might be opportunities for WERA to partner with established trackday organizations to give easier access to the trackday riders who do have an interest if a way could be found to make it mutually beneficial.

The bottom line though I think is the economy is going to have to start really moving again before trackday organizations and racing organizations like WERA really start seeing the kind of numbers they were seeing a few years ago, I'm with JU on this one; Fix the economy and the rest will take care of itself.

 

not to make this a WERA-CCS thing, but CCS is doing this in FL region already... and i'm not really that thrilled about it, for selfish reasons
FL region holds all the races on Sunday, so Saturday has been a 3 session "practice" day. Experts, AM racers, Combined (singles/twins). Henry D. (our promoter) now added a "Track Day" session to the 3 group rotation, so now we have 4 groups (and why i'm not super thrilled, we loose track time). The TD guys are charged $100 and have to have a race license (that they can get that day in the morning). So the promoter is making more money, cause the racers are still charged $100 as we were before for the same 4 group rotation as we were when we we were on track more with 3 groups..
The TD riders get to ride in a session with out the racers flying by, but get a "Taste" of the environment. For better or worse, it's already being done. And other regions of CCS already took notice, and stopped a 2 day race format, where you had a couple practice sessions each morning but racing each day..