Post up your "NEW" and "AFFORDABLE" health care rate

Sorry, but calling it deficit stimulus doesn't make tax breaks for taxpayers the same as keeping taxpayer money, plus borrowing more and spreading it to your political cronies to spend. That's the point that you're missing completely.
And please name the many in the GOP who were for Romneycare and are now against Obamacare. You're going to have a tough time.
You're buying another mythical talking point pushed by the leftist press.

As to the poll referred to in that article you linked to, I loved this question:

Now, talking a moment about something called the federal debt ceiling…
Q19 The federal debt ceiling limits the amount of money the government can borrow. When the U.S. Treasury
needs to issue debt above the ceiling in order to avoid going into bankruptcy and to pay the government’s
bills, Congress needs to vote to raise the ceiling. Which of the following causes you more concern?

That Congress will not raise the debt ceiling and the federal government
will not pay its bills, such as defaulting on its loans and not making
payments to Social Security recipients and government workers ............... 37
That Congress will raise the debt ceiling and that federal spending will
increase and the government will go further into debt as a result ............... 41

Even though the phrasing is bullshit, and the poll includes more Dems than Repubs, more people fear raising the debt limit than not.

And then there was this:

Now as you may know, Barack Obama’s health care plan was passed by Congress and signed into law in
2010…
Q21 From what you have heard about the new health care law, do you think it is (ROTATE) – a good idea or a
bad idea? If you do not have an opinion either way, please just say so. (IF GOOD IDEA/BAD IDEA, ASK
And, do you feel that way strongly, or not so strongly?

10/7-



Total Good idea ............. 38
Strongly ........................... 31
Not so strongly ............... 7
Total Bad idea ................ 43
Not so strongly ............... 5
Strongly ........................... 38
Do not have an opinion .. 17
Not sure ........................ 2

To show the makeup of those polled (only 86% were registered voters)

A lot of people are unable to get out and vote for many reasons. Did you happen to vote in last November's
election for president? (IF “YES,” ASK For whom did you vote––Barack Obama, Mitt Romney, or someone
else?+


Yes, Voted
Voted for Barack Obama ............................. 44
Voted for Mitt Romney ................................. 35
Voted for someone else ............................... 6
Not sure ....................................................... 5
No, Did Not Vote .......................................... 10
Not sure ..................................................... -
+ Results shown reflect responses among registered voters.




Read the whole poll here: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/A_Politics/_Today_Stories_Teases/Oct_poll.pdf

 

They are exempt- seen some reports estimating that around a million just above the poverty line will seek welfare despite getting the largest tax premiums. Who knows how many will.

So about 1/5 of the population is exempt.

I'm all for the ACA as a whole. Even with the middle class getting blazed pretty badly. But after watching the committee hearing with Sarah Ingram the irs is in no way ready. She basically said they have no idea how they are going to estimate fees for employers or how they are going to collect them. Somewhat suggesting after all employees file their taxes.... I may be wrong but my brain went straight to employers posing fines for late or improper filing..

My premium wish list would be a reverse curve from professional singles at around 800% of the poverty line down to around 600% to those families with 4+. I'd get the extra money by taxing the crap out of American base companies with oversea manufacturing. Well, until TPP gets approved.

 

To which they would respond by simply moving their headquarters to a different country. Then you collect even less in taxes.
Good plan.

 

How Obamacare really works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xSX49qfPFo4

 

Ok, so today we do (b) anyway, and instead of (a), we don't fine the person who receives care without being able to afford it, we just add the cost of their care to everyone elses' bill.

I fail to see how the new way is more sinister than the old.

 

1) totally bogus argument. Everyone owns a body

2) unless you are extremely exceptional, you will not make it through life without preventative and restortative health care. Again, a bogus argument.

3) note that just like in states that require car insurance, the only $ going to the politicians is the fine. All the rest goes to private insurance companies.

 

You have a death grip on your car insurance to life insurance comparison. I don't think you will be able to convince any free thinker to accept your analogy. It is flawed for all the reasons listed above that you never addressed.

 

If you can't at least see (without agreeing with) the analogy, then you are not actually a free thinker.

 

beac......stop playing games and just answer the question.

If you didn't own a car but were forced to buy car insurance would that piss you off?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

Yes, but I still don't see the point of the question. Everyone who is "living" as we commonly understand it has a body. That fact alone makes your question a complete non-sequitur. Kind of like asking if I like eating apples because I'm riding a bicycle.

 

any one get a Obama IPHONE ?

 

Nah, let the NSA attempt to spy on me through my dumb phone.

 

I see what you are trying to do but it is based on faulty logic. Any comparison that in the very best situation can only be true 75% of the time is a complete non starter.

 

Because when your way pulls more money out of the pockets of individuals pulling their weight in order to support those who don't, then it's another form of welfare on the backs of a middle class who are already stretched to the limit.

Yup. I'm tired of it.

 

Ahhh, the old liberal fall back.
If you don't agree with me, you are not...
as smart as you think
as open minded as you think
a free thinker
etc, etc, etc

 

So the debt ceiling question started with a false premise at the start. The government brings in more than enough to pay its bills but not enough to cover new spending. The details get worse as you look.

 

Just to get back to "New" and "Affordable," like the thread originally started...

I had a chance to talk to HR about how much more it would have cost the employees if the old plan with BCBS was even still available. According to HR, assuming the company continued paying the same ~$1,000/mo (which they still pay for all plans), my monthly insurance cost would have gone from ~$250/mo to ~$685/mo. In other words, I would be paying just as much for health insurance as I am paying for my house. That isn't all due to the ACA, but damn.

Saying that the whole ACA is a wonderful thing because of the two nice things in it is like saying the Pontiac Fiero that is on fire in the middle of the interstate is a nice car because the front tires are still in good condition.

 

Prior to switching to a HSA with a $6000 annual deductible. Bonnie and I were paying $1400 per month for the two of us. It was an excellent BCBS PPO with 100% in network coverage. She broke here tibia in a mountain bike accident and had a Ti Rod installed and spent a day and a half in the hospital and our out of pocket was zero. BCBS paid $18,000....about a years premium.

Medical care/insurance cost is our single biggest concern at this stage of our lives and the most difficult to forecast/plan for. We're both healthy with no pre-existing conditions.

 

But the current system does exactly that. The cost of caring for the freeloaders who are uninsured is borne by us who have insurance, as well as by us the taxpayers. In the end, (but certainly not at the beginning) the ACA will actually lower the subsidy we are forced to provide the freeloaders.


And then there's this:

:crackhead:
I try to be pleasant, but WTF?
Do you actually read what other people write, or do you just see the name, quote it and start spouting canned crap you get from some radio or TV? Are you really that brainwashed? If so, you have my condolences. <walks away shaking head>

 

Exactly what past performance measures do use to support your belief that this would happen? I know full well what is promised. I also have nothing upon which to base belief that the promises will be kept.