confederate flag stinky stinky

Just because I'm not on your point

The war was about more than slavery, unless you attended a liberal college in the US where they beat you with a stick that the reason for the war was slavery.

People can fly whatever flag they want wherever they want, Unless they fly it above the US flag, then they get stomped

 

I keep saying this and no ones believes me!

I would also add that some of most racist (and descriminatory) people that I have come across in the South, primarily Central Florida are generally transplants from the Northeast.

I have been (work and play) in all but 3 State (WA, OR, AK) and when I am in the Northeast, I feel like a second class citizen. But, I still think one day I may work in Boston, so it has not affected me that bad.

I love the people in KS (except the anarchist youth in Lawrence). But I give them time, they are still young and have a right to foolisness.

I think we keep focusing too much on Racism. I accept racism for what it is. Good or bad. I have met my share number of racist people in the US including, hispanics, southerners/northerners (blacks & white), asians, etc. I don't mind when people are cautious or standoffish, I think is a natural thing for some.

I see myself as an ambassador. And, I don't back away from interacting with others. I welcome the opportunity to represent myself first as an individual and second to debunk that myth that all Cubans fall under the stereo-type of Ricky Ricardo.

If we really look down at the definition of Racism, I think, at least for me, to say with absolute truth that I am not a Racist, is not entirely accurate. However, what I can say with certainty, is that I do not descriminate. Sometimes, it may take some work to do the right thing or to be more precise to be fair.

I believe that if we focus on fair, we all win. It is okay to be cautious or aprehensive of others specially when we associated them with other groups be it due to skin color, nationality or even religion. But in the end, it is about giving that person the one-on-one time. It may change him/her, maybe even you.

In the end, Descrimination an action that pains others. People that descriminate are nothing more than cowards. They are bully types. IMO.

So, if you run across me somewhere some day, I don't bite. I also don't dance. I am however, a descent baseball player and all 'round sportsman. I am also a natural in the water which has served me well since contrary to popular belief here, I did not cross the Rio Grand.

All jokes are welcome, it is the opening act!

 

I am a Yankee by birth and southerner by transplant. I don't think it is a racist piece of propaganda. It's just the flag of the losing side. It's just like someone flying the Rising Sun or a Nazi Swastika. You have that right, but if it flys above old Glory.... prepare for a nationsize asswhooping. To paraphrase Oliver Wendall Holmes.... "Your right to be a dumbass, stops where the other dumbass begins."

As far as the Civil War.
It wasn't about slavery. It was about states rights.
Slavery was just a modern revisionist part.
If it was about slavery, then the emacipation proclomation would have happened a lot sooner and done while the southern states were part of the union...


As far as reparations go. I am all for reparations, but, my family (mom's side) had slaves that were freed by the emacipation proclomation, so I would like reparations too. I want it adjusted for inflation and interest. I think we paid about $50 each back in 1820. That's a lot of $$. Now I think we should give everyone this option:
1. You get $50,000 in reparations, stripped of your citizenship and a one-way-never-to-return ticket to your African country of choice
or
2. STFU about it. Get over it. Stop breaking the law. Stay in school and stop getting all your girlfriends pregnant.

Fair enough?

 

My only contribution to this part of the discussion is to state that Ricky Ricardo is the last person I think of when I think of a Cuban...
"Say Hello to my little friend!"

And, back on topic - It is true that idiots are going to be idiots - it doesn't matter what their nationality or skin color is. And only an idiot would claim that one of the most enduring symbols of Racism is merely a matter of "Southern Pride."
However, I say let them fly what they want. It really doesn't matter to me. I don't take my own personal "identity" from what others think or do.

 

:up:

 

This thread was not about slavery either. This thread was about the stars and bars and how people feel about it.

Most intelligent people know that the freedom of slaves was a tactical move of factions during both the Revolutionary and Civil War.

 

You started the stupid, I showed you slavery happened in the north, I showed a reason why some fly the stars and bars and it is military pride, not racism. So what was your point again?

If people feel the stars and bars is racist they probably also feel that they are second class citizens and have to work harder than whites to attain the same things. I am a Yankee transplant in GA and there are some people who feel the flag is about racism, the largest majority do it because their fathers did it, and their fathers did it.

I do know GA peeps were pissed when it was removed from the State flag without a vote from the people.

 

It doesn't matter how long the South was "American." The flag is a symbol for the people living in that part of the country. They fly it proudly for their "team." The fact that history ended up teaching that the Confederate battle flag was a racist symbol doesn't have anything to do with actual historical accuracy. Slavery existed all over the Eastern seaboard so don't try to pin it all on the South. Just because someone likes to fly that flag doesn't mean that that person is a racist.

 

It appears that you are one of the folks that blame the object instead of the person behind the object. The Confederate battle flag was no different than the US flag flown over the Northern troops during the Civil War nor was the actions of the Southern troops any different than those of the North. It was a war over states rights and had very little to do with slavery. Slavery was the final straw that caused the war to start but was not the big reason.

Distorted history is keeping racial hatred alive more than anything else and at present there are several "leaders" in the black race that do their best to add to it so, in todays time, the blame for hatred is shared by many.

Coming from a white guy I feel that, for you as a black person, the best thing to do is to treat everyone that you deal with equally, ignoring your, or their, skin color and not act like a "victim" of racial hatred. You're only a victim if you believe you are.

 

I'm going to agree with you to some extent. It's easy to see some of those "rednecks" and make assumptions about them but you don't really have the necessary information to judge them until you get to know them on a personal basis. Granted, some of them were hatched under a rock along some small creek in the hills, but a lot of them are pretty decent people. I suspect that those that aren't idiots and racists have just chosen to fly the battle flag just because you're not suppose to. (A rebel has to be a rebel ya know)

As far as it being a geographical thing; around here it seems like all I see are Dallas Cowboy flags and stickers. (they fly just under the rebel flag)

 

This is spaghetti logic that would make David Duke proud.

Slavery existed elsewhere but you ignore the fact that people elsewhere don't insist on publicly displaying a flag that most blacks believe symbolizes white racism. But, even though you admit history teaches that the flag is seen by many as a hated racist symbol, that's ok because you also claim history isn't accurate. So what you're implying indirectly is that what black people believe still doesn't matter.

 

I like the Bonnie Blue flag. It's much better looking than the Battle flag. :up:

 

You may think that. I'm not sure how many would agree that you have. I'm certainly not one of them.

 

There's a big 'ole rebel flag on I-75 going north to Jennings.
Somewhere around Lake City I think.
I love those flags.
Ask me, the time is right for an uprising.

 

and to some is means southern pride. Now who should we cater too? The offendee or the offenders?

Just because someone doesn't like it, doesn't mean it has to be removed/deleted/burned/ etc. I mean if that is the case, then anything that has to do with the Dallas Cowboys must go...

"Your right to swing your arm stops where the other man's nose begins." Justice Oliver Wendall Holmes

 

Orvis, I respect you a lot but this post in response to Smokes is proof that you just don't get it. That flag is a symbol of racism to many if not most blacks and many of the white people who fly it. White racism may not be intimidating to you but to any black person who remembers or has learned of even the civil rights struggles of the 1960s and 1970s (not to speak of knowing the history of slavery) the flag is a living symbol of prejudice and violence against them.

So don't blame Smokes for knowing history. Blame yourself for forgeting it.

And don't forget that the Confederate insurrection was far more traitorous and violent than anything American Communists or American Nazis have done in the US and far more US Army troops were killed by Confederates than Al Queda and other Islamic terrorists combined.

So forgive me if I get a little rankled when someone blithely flys the flag of murderous, slaving traitors to the US flag and the US Constitution. Do you get it just a little more now?

Note to all: But it is within your right to fly the Confederate traitors flag if you want, just don't whine like a bitch when I remind you who the Confederates really were.

Last thing: Slavery was the driving force behind the war. Although there were other precipitating factors, without the existence of slavery the Civil War would not have occured. Google is your friend -- use these seach terms: "civil war" "root cause" slavery. And I'll post up links to documents from 1860 and 1861 issued by Southern states that prove slavery was the cause once I have 5 minutes to do so from my home laptop.

 

You do have the legal right to fly the flag of racist traitors, but see above.

 

I guess that I should have been a bit clearer on what I meant about the teaching of history on the Civil War. It's lot simpler, and easier, to just teach that the Civil War was about slavery instead of going into detail about all the different causes. That would take up too much classroom time. I wasn't saying that history wasn't accurate, just how it was, and is, taught.

People find it easier to blame an object for the ills that they face when they can't find an individual to pin things on. As far as black people and the Civil War are concerned, slavery is a painful part of their history. It's gone, but it's hard to let go of, so they pick an object that represents the idea of slavery. The Confederate Battle flag has become that symbol. It's more symbolic than picking something else like, for example, the color gray. (the color of the Confederate uniform)

I'm not implying that what black people think doesn't matter. I question why some of the black race keeps hanging onto the idea of their being victims because of slavery. It's over, it's gone, get the hell over it.

Eventually, it'll come to an end. When all the Sharptons, Jacksons and other instigators of racist attitudes are gone (assuming and hoping that others don't take their place) we can make good progress toward racial peace.

 

Great northerner's view.

The war was about those in the Northeast pushing their ways on the rest of the country. The largest of those "ways" was slavery. So yes you could say the war was about slavery indirectly.

The flag is called the Rebel flag. Many people fly it for that reason. They want to think they are rebels.

One of the greatest things that ever happened in the country was the Confederacy losing but it did wake up the rest of the country apparently.

Wait til the commies in Washington try to take everyone's weapons.