I need a new handgun...lets talk guns today. :D

Nice. What are we looking at here man? I need to take notes for my own purchase.

 

Ruger Precision Rifle and Ruger AR556

 

So, I completed the Handgun qualification licensing course today. Regarding "best" handguns, our instructor suggested the following are the brands of handguns that he would trust with his life.

Sig Sauer
Glock
Smith & Wesson M&P
Colt before 1990s
HK (Heckler & Koch)


Other brands.

 

I should have mentioned that the instructor mentioned he would NOT RECOMMEND other brands, such as ruger.

 

Beretta 92 (F, FS, S versions)
CZ (P10, 75, 97, P01, P09 models)

 

Canik has been getting a lot of good pub lately. Half the price of similar model Glocks.

 

Well I'm bored so I'll throw my .02 out there (which I feel like I've done a lot in response to your posts lately so hope you don't mind).

His list is far from exhaustive although I agree with parts of it. So I'll expound and provide my own opinions.

Sig Sauer - By most accounts, they're probably fine but do your research. I'm a bit jaded by them but will admit I don't know many people who share my opinion. But I will reiterate do your research on any gun from them before buying. They seem to have a tendency to come up with very innovative ideas but push them to market without due diligence. So first runs often end up flawed, sometimes dangerously. They seem to usually correct these problems eventually but you want to make sure you buy one with a serial number that indicates a manufacture date after the problems have been resolved. The P320 and P365 are both more recent examples of this. Supposedly their higher end stuff is the tits according to some but I've been so disenchanted with them for so long I've never bothered to try them out.

Glock - More military and law enforcement contracts than any other company in the world and the most popular pistol among real "operators." "Nuff said. They also have aftermarket support that quite possibly dwarfs every other brand combined. They only build pistols and have become extremely good at it. I do find them boring, lacking in ergonomics (weird grip angle and the slide release for field stripping is unnecessarily odd to me), and their stock base model sights are the suck. But it is hard to argue against their reputation and proven effectiveness in the field. One of the two brands I recommend for new gun owners.

Smith & Wesson - The other brand I would recommend to new gun owners. Nothing terribly exciting but they're effective and possibly the best bang for your buck on the market. Bottom line is they work and won't break the bank.

Colt - Mostly good (with some notable exceptions such as certain runs of their 1911 government models) but outdated. Ultimately, they're neat but not practical. All their newer stuff is a 1911 or some variation of that design. 1911s are perfectly fine guns but not the most practical for concealed carry nowadays. After all, it is a 100+ year old design. Same with their older revolvers however those are mostly just bought by collectors anyways and often will break the bank for that reason.

HK - my personal favorite handguns. I've shot a few of them and the VP9 is my everyday carry. They shoot like a dream and are dead nuts reliable. However, they're a bit less universal in terms of fit. Guys who like the fit and feel of Glocks don't necessarily love HKs. They just so happen to fit me perfectly. They also utilize a Euro style mag release which requires a bit of additional training to get used to (it's the only thing I'd change about mine) and some argue it even poses a safety threat due to its proximity to the trigger. The fact that it's a bit less universal is the reason I don't suggest it for first time gun owners. It's one of those guns you should probably figure out what you like first before investing in. Also a little more expensive than most other comparable pistols, albeit not by much.

FN - My personal favorite firearms manufacturer overall and second favorite pistols. Similar to HK in terms of fit and feel. Not the best factory triggers but overall still good pistols and they do have the standard thumb mag release which is nice. And from a company with an impressive list of innovations and military contracts around the world across their full firearms lineup. Hard to go wrong with them but like HK, a bit more unique in terms of fit and feel.

CZ - I've only ever shot one - an older CZ75. When I first picked it up, my opinion on the feel in my hand was about middle of the road. Then I shot it. Only pistol I've ever shot that felt as nice as my HK, maybe even better. And from what I understand, their newer guns are even nicer to shoot. It may be worth noting that they are extremely popular in the competition world because of this quality. I'm actually very interested in playing with some more of them, just haven't had the opportunity. Reputation would suggest they're plenty reliable. However, they've never really struck me as quite as practical for concealed carry when considering dimensions vs. mag capacity. Your results may vary.

Walther - Reputation would suggest a quality firearm. To the best of my memory, I've never even held one but many will claim the PPQ model is one of the greatest pistols ever invented. They definitely have a bit of a cult following (much like CZ). Can't really comment on them other than that but may be worth looking into.

Springfield - Decent guns despite what you may read. They don't really tickle my fancy but I don't think there's anything wrong with them and would probably compare them mostly to Smith & Wessons. If you scour the internet, you will see a lot of people shitting on them. Don't be fooled. It has nothing to do with their guns. They made some admittedly questionable political decisions in the eyes of gun owners (effectively supported a form of gun control legislation) some years ago and there is now a dedicated group of gun owners out there who will forever hate them for it. Nothing short of getting machine guns legalized will likely ever change this. But for concealed carry, I'd give them as much a chance as any other decent brand.

Beretta - Perfectly fine guns but probably more unique in a few ways than most. Their best guns seem to be their hammer fired. I've probably met more people that didn't like them than those that did. They're reliable but their "uniqueness" seems to annoy more than it pleases. Biggest problem is they're decent enough guns but for the price they should probably be great. And well, I've just never gotten the feeling they did anything great other than go bang every time you pull the trigger.

Kimber - See Colt, but prettier.

Kel-tec - Across their product line they have some really cool innovation. Their .22 pistols are supposedly a lot of fun. However, they lack the build quality necessary for a tool your life may depend upon. They've gotten it right a couple times such as with their .22 pistols and KSG line of shotguns. However, I wouldn't consider anything they make duty quality.

Magnum Research - ok, for real, who doesn't want a desert eagle just for shits and giggles?

Remington - Meh. They're known for shotguns for a reason. Probably should just stick to that.

Ruger - Don't be fooled by name recognition. Their revolvers are nice enough, they make some decent rifles, and their .22 target pistol is the bees knees. But outside of that .22 pistol, their semi-auto handguns are shit. Don't waste your time. I can honestly say I've never been so surprised by how bad a gun could be. Some guns you know are shit and are not surprised when they suck (such as a Hi-Point). But for some reason I half expected the Rugers to at least be cheap but decent range toys if nothing else. Not even close. Just say no.

Taurus - There is no end to guys on the internet talking about how they're about 500 rounds into their Taurus ownership and it's never failed them. This is NOT a good indication. Who cares if it works when still new? Chances are if you ever have to use it in self defense and have been training like you should, you'll be at least a couple thousand rounds into the gun by then and will have some wear and tear on it. Simply put, it will likely not be so reliable anymore. Not to mention most of those internet Taurus defenders often add the caveat that "it runs great as long as I feed it [insert some particular type of ammo here]." If it's picky about what ammo it'll eat when new, imagine what it'll be likely under adverse conditions.

ZEV - ZEV employees carry Glocks because they can't afford their own product. Gucci guns. If you're considering one of these, I would suggest buying one of the previously suggested brands and spend your extra $1K on range time and training.

Canik - wide range of prices. Apparently shoot very well from what I've read but reliability may be questionable. Some swear by them and others swear they're not worth the investment. Having never personally shot one, I can't say one way or the other but I will say there are plenty of other guns out there with far superior reputation for similar money.

Sccy or Bersa - Cheap shit. Don't waste your time.

Hi-Point - Literally made from pot metal. They are surprisingly resilient. And by resilient, I mean they can take a beating and a half and continue to perform like new. However, even new they are laughably bad. If you want to know how bad, look up Hi-Point memes. They are the pinnacle of horrifically bad. The Chinese knockoff of a Chinese knockoff of the gun world. Two types of people buy a Hi-Point - gangbangers and people who have fun bedazzling them and then conducting their own torture test that will inevitably be finalized by blowing it up with 6+ lbs. of tannerite (also the same people who will buy one just because they think it's funny to say they own a yeet cannon). I suspect you are not the former and if you are the latter, do not let your friends see you purchasing it. Or anyone you know or think you might ever possibly get to know for that matter. Upsides: they can be found with relative ease at pawn shops for under $100 and have a lifetime warranty. Supposedly, they will replace the aforementioned torture tested pistol at no cost once you destroy it. However, I have not tested this theory... yet. Also, the only correct way to shoot a Hi-Point is sideways.

Well that was fun. Hopefully someone else enjoys reading this small novel at least close to as much as I enjoyed writing it.

 

Well yeah, but you know how opinions go...

No different than me not recommending Suzukis when teaching beginner rider courses lol

There are certainly better options for handguns than Rugers, but there are many worse ones too. Gun technology is so old and well known that it's hard to mess up nowadays. I know people that will even vouch for a HiPoint (cheapest handguns available), and I know people that say Sig is shit, so it's all opinions based on what everyone likes. FWIW, my Ruger has worked every time so far in probably about 800 rounds I've put through it. Just a matter of how much money you want to spend and what you like. For example I really wanted a S&W M&P Shield, but after shooting it I realized I didn't like the trigger. I'm sure it's a great gun, but it just didn't feel right to me.

 

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-m4-carbine-classic-fde-rifle-kit-516446389.html

 

You should try another one. What was it that you shot that was so bad? I think you mentioned it a few pages back that it was some old model of something I haven't heard of or something...don't judge a whole brand by one bad experience with one model. Try the Security-9, or one of the SR series or the LC series. They work and shoot just fine. But you're right that Ruger is not really known for handguns. They don't have a good variety of "real" handguns and seem to focus mostly on compact and subcompact ones. The Security-9 is probably the only one I would get, unless I decide some day that I want a cheaper 1911, in which case I may give the SR1911 a try.

 

I believe it was an LCP, an EC9, and then one of their larger models (can’t recall exactly which one but I do know it was not the security 9 as I believe it was before that gun was even released and I remember reading where some people were saying it was a vast improvement over previous models). None of them would cycle a full magazine without some sort of stoppage. Often even getting through 3 rounds was a chore, even trying various types of ammo. The grips all sucked and the recoil/muzzle flip versus size was ridiculous for all. The grip shape never felt right to me or the two other people I was with. The magazines felt wobbly in the magwell but on the two smaller ones also didn’t want to eject freely. The sights were near impossible to pickup with both eyes open. Overall I just could not find a single thing I liked about them.

Admittedly these were all range rentals that I’m sure had been abused a bit (was helping my mother find a new gun and we tried many). But to me that’s when you find out how good a gun truly is. I know with any of the brands I suggested, you can run em dry, throw on a rock, submerge em under water, cover em in dirt, and then piss on em and they will still cycle any kinda ammo you wanna throw at em. Maybe their stuff is better now. But it’s always going to be hard for me to trust them with my life after seeing such a poor quality product even once, let alone 3 times. Same as what I said about kel-tec. I know they’ve gotten it right a few times but the number of times they’ve gotten it wrong just gives me no faith in the company.

I’m also probably a harsher critic than most. I don’t consider myself a gun snob (I think the fact that I like smith & Wesson and Springfield is evidence of this) but I’m also not very accepting of many failures. Most would probably call me crazy for having no faith in Sig but my experience has simply led to that. So while I may be a bit on the harsh side, I also know that everything I invest in will run to the absolute limits of what current technology allows and will also provide the best platform for me to maximize my own skill (however much or little there is). And when my life could be on the line (or worse, the life of my family), that’s all that matters.

 

I would second, you know what they say about opinions...

 

^^^ This.

See? I had trouble reconciling two brands of handgun rentals performing badly as just being anomalies. I remember having them on my list with a 'star', eager to try. My argument is that they are used and show how they will perform after the newness wears. Your comment will probably make me cut and run for now.

 

I liked the Security-9 (compact) and enjoyed shooting it.

 

This another good read. Actually, this whole discussion is well worth the time spent reading. One small problem is that it distracted me from my Netflix binging for while. Not just reading this whole discussion but researching and chatting the heck out of my more knowledgeable friends about gun stuff.

 

My Ruger LC9Pro must be an anomaly, function has been perfect...

 

Mine to.(lc9 pro) For a pocket gun I carry a lcp380 bought after the many ftf's from my $600.00 kahr p380 that sits in the safe now ,and has been back to the factory .The kahr when working is a nicer gun but I have no confidence in it . The lcp has never missed a beat.

 

I have a brand new Sig Romeo 5 in the box, never been used if anyone wants it? $130 and I can ship for you.

 

I forgot CZs. They were on the instructor's list of recommendations too.

 

Was gonna put it on my 6.8 AR that I never use anymore and shoot up some ammo. Last year I was shooting my AR all the time at hogs but now I'm just bringing my bolt gun down to the farm.

There are a few used EO techs in the range of a new Holosun but the battery life on those holosuns looks like it would be better for me. An LVPO would be better but I want a Red dot for some reason. I've changed the scope on this gun probably 10 times hah.