css teaching trail braking?

Fit this in wherever it applies...
CSS has always taught letting the brakes off to, at a minimum, reduce any pogo effect of the front suspension when entering a turn.

I don't think anyone would want to enter a turn with more fork compression (max braking) than the cornering forces themselves would induce. The balance for your level of skill, the equipment you're riding and the lay of the track is the application of the science. Finding the balance is the art.
Y'all need to score higher on your SATs.

 

Pretty sure Elena got more instruction from Ken Hill that CSS.

 

Even so, casting aspersions at any of the top school's isn't really in any rider's interest. If it were, the list of Champions that benefitted from CSS's tutelage is a laurel no other school can touch.
Given time, that may change, but CSS isn't sitting on their laurels.

 

Part of the reason these classes don't like to teach rear braking,is because it's too much to absorb for the new Rider. Unless you ride dirtbikes most people don't know how to use the rear brake.

 

I hate that dirt riders use the rear...all them damn braking bumps entering a corner. Can't they learn how to ride properly?

 

Based on the research I did, YCRS and rickdickulous trump CSS if your target is to be a good racer.

 

Did that research involve attending all 3 schools?

 

"Trail braking time has come and gone". What the fuck does that even mean?

Did the laws of physics suddenly change? Did they remove all the curves from the tracks? Did we stop worrying about passing people or getting around the track as quickly as possible?

That might be one of the stupidest fucking things I have ever seen.

 

well,if we're talking about the depicted corner/diagram:
the sudden change of direction (where the x is) prevents a gradual and proportional release of the brakes as you lean.
also,the type of corner depicted, would not require that much maintenance throttle (yellow part "cornering force").

 

No it doesn't, if it did I would have explicitly stated that my statement is based on firsthand experience, not research.

Was thinking the same thing, so I guess the MotoGP/Moto2/WSBK etc. guys are using less effective old fashioned riding techniques.

 

What do you mean by gradual and proportional?

I'm assuming you're saying you would try to start releasing the brakes at that point?
If you know how much your forks will be compressed at that depicted quick turn-in, I think you would start to release the brakes to match the amount of compression your forks would experience at the turn-in point before you got there. Timing your arrival and amount of brake released to coincide with your turn-in is what is required. As you progress towards full lean, any remaining brake force would be released. Whatever you gotta do to prevent the forks from pogoing at turn-in is all I'm sayin'.

 

Trail braking is not for the street. #not

https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcyc...7132&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

 

I think it means that you have reached the apex and need to roll the throttle

 

where does it say that? I didn't get that from the article at all.

 

A double negative forms a positive

 

hashtags don't work like that

 

I have done all 4 levels of CSS. They absolutely have been teaching trail braking but it was in lv4. I spent half the day working on drills for it. I have talked to plenty of people that have done both. They teach the same things. Pick one that fits your learning style. I think most of the problem is that people hear what they want to hear in a conversation.

 

Is performance motorcycle riding best taught/learned in smaller increments, laying down the basics then adding additional layers while maintaining the veil of secrecy and milking additional $$'s from their students?
Or is it best taught as the big picture as a continuum of techniques that should not be separated and perhaps should not be profited from to the nth degree?

 

Yes.

It has nothing to do with keeping secrets and milking money from students. It has to do with how much the brain can absorb and utilize at any given time.

As has been proven many times at schools, if you tell students “this time, go out and focus on doing this, that, and then this...”, they will become proficient in exactly none of it.

But if you dedicate an entire session (or multiple sessions, depending on how far the new technique strays from common bad habits) focusing on ONE thing, and one thing only, you can begin to develop muscle memory.

Once that is ingrained, then you add a second task.

In the JDSA, we taught trail braking, but we never started the lessons with “accelerate out of the previous corner and down the straight, start braking when necessary, get your body in position before turn-in, turn the bike in while gradually releasing the brakes, maintain brake pressure even after you are knee-down, then roll on the throttle”.

There would be a mountain of bikes piled up outside T1.

We first started with students going about 30mph in a straight line, then slowly releasing the brakes, controlling fork extension, while straight up and down, all the way to a complete stop...using very fine/deliberate control of the brake lever to control the forks all the way up, not allowing them to “bounce” at the top.

...and it went from there. By the end of the day, they would find themselves on the brakes deep into the corner, even knee-down, while in complete control.

Teaching riding fundamentals is the same as teaching anything else. If you went to take Spanish, they wouldn’t throw out the whole dictionary and say “speak that”. No, they would start slow, with common pronouns, then verbs, and slowly add/build as things progress. If not, the students will retain nothing.

 

Knowing what the big picture is doesn't come in a sudden flash of inspirational insight and now you're a superstar.
If you don't have an idea of what the big picture is, an image doesn't tell you anything on point. It's a puzzle to be pieced together. Everyone has their own needs to successfully piece the image together.

Show this to a NASCAR fan who has never heard of motorcycle roadracing and they won't know what they're looking at.
Show it to a motorcycle roadracer and they'll know what's going on, even if they haven't managed to achieve that level of skill themselves. There are still pieces of the puzzle to be had...


So, it's not about withholding information for a profit, it's about delivering relevant information in an organized manner. No need to teach anyone about trailbraking, sliding, backing it in, etc., if that person doesn't know that loading the suspension stabilizes the bike. No need to teach them about apexes and exits if they can't get the entry. There could be some stupid drill that makes no sense but the action, when combined with information, produces results. Wax on/wax off, paint the fence, sand the floor...none of those actions teach karate without the information that ties those actions to the lessons to be learned.

People that go to more "racey" schools already have a good idea about how to ride in anger and they're likely looking for that next piece of their personal riding puzzle. Not to give the impression that you don't need to already know how to ride if you go to CSS, you absolutely need to already know how to operate a motorcycle.
The difference with CSS is that you must first be on the same page as the curriculum to avoid, as best as possible, confusion about what future information you're receiving. When Doug Chandler took CSS, he started with Level 1. He was already a National name in the racing community but, to progress through the puzzle, he had to identify the pieces he may have already known so the school could build upon that foundation. If there are missing pieces in the puzzle, additional information will not complete the image.