Frivolous lawsuit against Keigwins trackday organization:gofundme link

Discussion in 'General' started by duc995, Mar 13, 2018.

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  1. Mot Okstef

    Mot Okstef Living on the Island of Misfit Toys

    WERA is great when it comes to rider safety concerns. They may not always agree because they have way more experience than most of us racers. Sean was very gracious to me at AMS when I decided not to race the sprints on Sunday. I went to the registration trailer after the endurance race and they gave me a credit toward the next race event, knowing full well I was going to show up and race.

    I also had an injury and trashed bike one weekend after a crash at Roebling and went to the tower and met with Emily to withdraw from the Sunday sprint races because I was too injured to ride and my bike and leathers were unrepairable at the track. Every time I have had to work with WERA due to crashes/injuries they have always been very gracious and resolved the situation to the satisfaction of everyone involved. :cool:
     
    Mot Okstef, Mar 13, 2018
    #81
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  2. Mot Okstef

    Mot Okstef Living on the Island of Misfit Toys

    Ever been to Nelson Ledges? ;)
     
    Mot Okstef, Mar 13, 2018
    #82
  3. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    As I said, on or off track. And yes, I fully expect the riders to make up their own minds on safety - if you choose not to do so then you are taking the opinion of the provider as fact - which is fine. However at that point you don't get to bitch later. Yet again - it is the riders responsibility to make sure the venue is safe enough for them, however they do that is up to them but it is still just that, up to them.

    Exactly - and this doesn't remotely come to the level of gross negligence.

     
    Mongo, Mar 13, 2018
    #83
  4. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    No clue, we've been accused of gross negligence by lawyers that have no clue but never once has our insurance company refused to stand behind us.
     
    Mongo, Mar 13, 2018
    #84
  5. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I did just read all of the gofundme stuff, still not making sense and his insurance paying out wouldn't set any precedent or the like, it's happened before and will happen again. Sure seems like there is more to the story.
     
    Mongo, Mar 13, 2018
    #85
  6. cha0s#242

    cha0s#242 Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand

    That's usually the case. Even if the lawsuit is "frivolous" or just ill founded in fact or in law, the insurer's obligation to defend is wider than the obligation to cover. So they're pretty much obligated to defend no matter what, unless it is clearly out of your policy coverage (like being sued for professional liability and trying to claim under your homeowner's policy or the like).
     
    cha0s#242, Mar 13, 2018
    #86
    G 97 likes this.
  7. CBRGriff

    CBRGriff Well-Known Member

    i don't understand how a lawyer would even bring this to the judges table. With the paperwork you sign it doesn't seem very winnable. Seems like the judge would just say"... um no...please leave."
     
    CBRGriff, Mar 13, 2018
    #87
  8. The Great One

    The Great One Well-Known Member

    The Great One, Mar 13, 2018
    #88
  9. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    There cannot be more than one guy with that name in the Bay Area...
     
    Mongo, Mar 13, 2018
    #89
    The Great One likes this.
  10. cha0s#242

    cha0s#242 Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand

    Thing is, in most states, it's illegal for companies to limit their liability for gross negligence in case of injury or death. So that waiver isn't as final as you'd think. An interesting read on the subject : https://www.shouselaw.com/personal-injury/liability-waivers
     
    cha0s#242, Mar 13, 2018
    #90
  11. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Gross negligence is a different thing and the whole point of the lawsuits. The suer always alleges gross negligence. That's the only way they get anywhere. And at least in San Bernadino County the judges will allow all sorts of nonsensical shit that directly goes against the law to be presented by people who are not experts and paid to lie. They will also totally ignore the law and reality to avoid ruling against their buddies and former judges at the high end law firms. The yellow ferrari club stays strong out there.
     
    Mongo, Mar 13, 2018
    #91
  12. G 97

    G 97 Garth

    I really don’t see any level of precedent being set. The insurance company can settle with no admission of guilt for one thing. The trackday org can do the same. Either way I don’t see much of any precedent being established from what or how the off track incident occurred. The owner is being goofy. Not to mention that this is exactly why you pay for insurance and this additional cost is factored into the trackday fees. The individual participants pay for it and then for the org not to use it then turn around and ask for charity. Pretty Busch league if you ask me.
     
    G 97, Mar 13, 2018
    #92
  13. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I still think there is more to it all. I'll have to do some asking around when we are out there in a couple weeks.
     
    Mongo, Mar 13, 2018
    #93
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  14. Gecko

    Gecko Well-Known Member

    I don't disagree.
    .
     
    Gecko, Mar 13, 2018
    #94
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  15. stangmx13

    stangmx13 Well-Known Member

    IMO, if the ditch & pipe are rider's right and aren't in an impact zone, the insurance is fucking stupid to even think of settling.
     
    stangmx13, Mar 13, 2018
    #95
  16. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    We are all in need of a lot more details for sure.

    Any lawyers wanna look up the filings for us? :D
     
    Mongo, Mar 13, 2018
    #96
    G 97 likes this.
  17. rabbit73

    rabbit73 Scheiße

    In fairness he's not really complaining about the track itself. It was the condition of the runoff area that took him out. Can a rider safely judge the racing surface after an out lap? Sure. Can they judge the condition of the runoff, gravel traps, etc ? I don't know.
     
    rabbit73, Mar 13, 2018
    #97
  18. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I would seriously hope you're all checking all of that stuff out at all the tracks before you ride it - however given the popularity of track days at places I'd never ride myself much less put on a race at I know better. Doesn't change that it is ultimately up to you to double check where you are pushing your limits and make sure it's safe enough for you.
     
    Mongo, Mar 13, 2018
    #98
  19. Dieselboy

    Dieselboy R6

    I agree. Obviously we don't have all the details, but if I slide of track and hit a land mine or bear trap I'm going to be pissed. Sighting laps and track walks (at tracks that even let you do this) will not reveal all the hazards. I dont agree with sueing the org, but the track should take care of any track hazards.
     
    Dieselboy, Mar 13, 2018
    #99
  20. noles19

    noles19 Well-Known Member

    Very true, a guy in novice made it through the gravel trap and to the guard rail at Charlotte's web. Not sure how he did that.
     
    noles19, Mar 13, 2018
    #100
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