SV 650 Motor Dies--help with diagnosis

God damn it was a simple mechanical question and you guys are still clackin like a bunch of f------ hens! sit down and drink a big glass of shut the f--- up! give it a rest.

 

:lol yep. your right zoran(?) winning championships, breaking lap records, competing internationally, setting records..etc..etc for over 10 years in this business is pretty easy and common....yep. so easy everyone should do it..but then again you'd be out of business as well would you not? You of all people should know the stuff i posted is FACTS..not just some h/s kid posting up stuff...maybe we'll have to come back to Thill and spank the "local fast guys" again...I recall going there in 2004 and a local fast guy Ken Hill(?) was talking smack to me when dunlop (Terry) intro'd me to him...saying my guys would be lucky to qualify in top 5...well my two guys (NEVER seen track before) qualified 1st and 2nd and were almost .5 secs faster than him...is it a cali thing that you guys have to bash anyone from somewhere else? rider or tuner? Damn. alli was trying to do was help a guy that i have no idea who he is even, then i posted my "resume" just and ONLY so he could see i know what im talking about because on the internet everyone has opinions...i just wanted him to realize i was trying to help..not just make shit up.

Whatever, in the end i tried to post up several proven things that are common issues,and even how to check if he did not have access to his tuner/shop...seeing this IS a tech section is it not? whatever, i know what i have done and can do...i tried to help a guy out on here and now your panties are in a bunch..have a super xmas.

 

so,your resume makes everything you say correct?
happy holidays

 

No richard! it simply seperates me from some other guy with few posts that offers up suggestions/ideas/help...does it not? Get off your high horse man...everyones a tough guy behind a keyboard...take it to a PM if you feel the need to continue..im pretty sure guys just want help in the TECH section..not your panties in a bunch crying...

 

ok,lets talk tech.
-stock tensioners are junk.why?do they breake?how offten?
-intake cam on exhaust side = nil power.did you test this?do you have resoult?
how come valve springs are not good enough when they work fine on intake with more cam lift?what makes them bad on exhaust?

 

- and how did you solve the head gasket problem on your 102 hp motor?

 

Wow..this is getting heated, just like my cylinders were

 

seizing?

 

Italian? the questions remain. I have the following options:

I really would like to try the 800ss

I really wish the 1000ss was still in production

I am comfortable on the SV, despite 2 blown motors, and ride it pretty good

I like the idea of an sv1000 but like a dumby I just sold one :down:

 

yep...all seized up and no where to go but spin around the crank

 

replaced often.. JK. actually once we stopped using a certain aftermarket brand and just used our tq plates to bore out the oem gaskets, and then used ape's stud/nut kit i didnt have an issue...however the clutchs were a weekly issue however...the motor took us about 4 months of tuning just on the throttle bodies since we used another bikes and of course had to fab just about everything since the butterfly's opening was reversed to that of the sv....imo not worth it...too much time and headache...the old 96-98rwhp superbikes with FCR41mm's work too easy and fun to ride.

 

1. yes. i have had them fail on me. Not just with SV, but with several suzuki's. I personally like the manual ones so i can set them up perfectly and then once set not worry about them even for a sec backing off.

2.yes. i did see about 2-3 peak hp.but most guys dont want to spend the time/money to degree it in properly and they just want bolt in stuff. I did not say it doesnt work..i just said i dont like that setup...too each thier own.

3. the valve springs are the weak link in the sv motors (ok, the 03+ its the lighter oem rods, the poorly updated crank...but in all the springs are not up to big lift)
Yes it works fine for LIFT on the exhaust side, however i had clearence issues with it on the exhaust side piston to valve...maybe i like more room in my ptv on the exhaust at 11deg. btdc than you? Maybe i am setting up the squish tighter than you? Maybe im milling more off the heads than you? My point is, in MY situations..i have found it not to work well...not just in hp..but in CLEREANCE and SAFETY reason...but it sounds like in YOUR engine set ups it is...in anycase, it was not a mod i would personally push..but agian...to each thier own. Ever engine guy has things he likes and does not like..im sure i have things i do that you, or someone else does not like.

 

I know we got SMOKED a few years back by a washington guy...couldnt figure it out..then next week i talked with Dan Zlock...seems he was "testing" thier 750cc kit....well that explained it... LOL But ZLock makes a kit and it is FAST..i have not done it (no spot in our club for it) and dont know much about it. But Dan and Dale Zlock are standup guys.

 

some people head head gasket issues due to ape studs and blind nuts sold for sv been wrong and not installed properly.
like I said,I never seen stock sv tensioner fail.some make more noice than others but never failed.I had to trash few ape manuals,not from backing out but from wearing out.one of them was so worn out that guide made grove in it and ear on guide broke off.rears are like you said cronic for leaking oil but that is not big problem.
2-3 hp is not exactly nil,that is good gain for $150 and 1 hour of work.if you want to play with set up you may gain more(according to your post you may see 2-3 hp difference by rolling cams around).so,if we take motor in this tread and spend some time tunning it can we see higher numbers,like 85hp.we dont even know what fuel he is using?
we all know sv can make more power,just throw money at it.
but some of us choose to make less and not throw bag of money on it.
so,it is just choice of set up and not my motor is low on power,I can get more.
with same set up as motor in this tread and pump gas(less porting)we have won 3 championships in last 2 years without ever touching anything on that motor other than valve clearance adjustment.it makes 81hp on dynojet dyno.
in fact we have 8 bikes running with similiar set without without any of them blowing up because stock springs are weak or cams are no good......or whatever.there is really nothing wrong with this set up,it is just one of set ups you can use.cost is really low,especially for those that can do it them selfs.
on other hand I have personally won championship this year while blowing up motor 4 times.difference is that I did not care about it and was looking for something new,trying different stuff.

 

+1 TOTALLY AGREE! I have told Jay at APE for YEARS the nuts will bottom out on a head/cylinder that has been cut too much...there are solutions..but your correct if someone just bolts the heads after being surfaced on...they are gonna bottom out the nut before reaching proper tq.

+1 APE tensioners are ok...but i too have seen the ends wear fast..but some depends on bike/setup/how tight...etc. and the rears?? i thought they were supposed to leak...LOL...yeah...again thier design is not best manual ones.

as for the in. cam on ex. side..i guess ill just leave it at we find/like different setups...as for throwing money at it...i agree..that one we did that made huge power (for a +2mm only) the guy was a BIG wig at microsoft and wanted it...did not care what cost was..i agree..not many like that...90% of the SV's we build a year are supersport versions.. The valve springs are fine for stock cams, i said that...for superbike cams you run the limits IMO...also my main criticism for the intake cam on exhaust side was when i have tried, with the squish i like, head surfaced like i like, cams timed like i want and other little mods...the PTV was too tight for me...again...different strokes for different folks..

lastly LOL on your blowing up your own bike...I TOTALLY FEEL YOUR PAIN! We set out in 2004 to build the nastiest R1 in country...we went thru 2 motors at first finding the oem rods snap at anything over 180rwhp...then carrillo finally came out with rods... but we decided to see what would happen if you made an R1 almost 1200cc...man that thing was an ANIMAL...101ft/lbs tq...and would loft front tire on straights in 5th gear! but after setting the lap record in seattle on it..the crank said "fxxk you..im outta here" and twisted right in half! we even have pics of it online..it was funny. We too did becaue why the hell not...lets see what happens...again we were not trying to win a championship with it..just wanted to scare my rider (actaully one guy refused to keep riding it unless it was detuned...haha he was too delicate) But in the end it was fun...no one we know of has made an 2004+R1 N/A make 190rwhp and 101ft/lbs...all in good fun!

 

[...maybe i like more room in my ptv on the exhaust at 11deg. btdc than you?


So are you saying that the exhaust valve is closest to the piston at 11deg BTDC?
And by the way what do you think is too close?

 

just think that piston and valve dont travel at same speed.
when you drive on road you go between lines,you cross the line and you can get hit by faster car

 

I agree, but you have to remember that the piston chases the IN valve (closest @ 8deg BTDC) and the EX valve chases the piston(closest @ 8deg ATDC). Next time you have a degree wheel on one check it. An SV will run with no problem at .040 ptv on the ex side. I have built way more than 50 sv motors like this and never had an ex valve touch.

 

Even more reason to buy a two-stroke(no valves baby!!!!):up: Its time to come over to the dark side

 

Scratch that whole post. G## Damn Santa Clause has had me putting shit together for the last 24 hrs straight. As this is my first year putting stuff together from Santa Clause I have learned a very valuable lesson - always inspect what your wife is planning to get the kids BEFORE she brings it home to be assembled.

With that said:
IN valve chases the piston closest @ 8deg atdc
piston chases EX valve closest @ 8deg btdc and if this is not correct I have a whole buch of SV motors running with about .025 ptv on the ex side

Jeff Walker
Precision Powersports & Machine, LLC