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Some Road Atlanta facts

Discussion in 'WERA National Endurance Series' started by Mongo, Sep 4, 2022.

  1. Sabre699

    Sabre699 Wait...hold my beer.

    Seems like WERA did the right thing but the douche who caused shit needs his license and man-card pulled.
    TurboBlew and 50Joe like this.
  2. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    Messed up, but no one hurt. Totally sucks and if after looking into it (avoid rash decisions) the rider did not stumble out because he had his bell rung or similar then act. If a 'rational' decision was made to walk onto a hot track I would recommend banning someone from racing and track days. This is NOT a hobby that can tolerate assholery. But again for perspective no one was hurt which would seem to validate the decisions made IMO.

    Oh and for perspective I have a great friend who lost his leg when he crashed and was stumbling when someone cleaned him out. I would not wish that on the biggest asshole here. Correct call to red that.

    Maybe a rule change on if you cause the termination your team gets penalty, demotion or disqualification. Less important than everyone being safe and I suspect it is already being thought on.
    50Joe likes this.
  3. Sounds like regardless of cause, although it sucks for the other racers was 100% the right one from what I’ve read. At that moment a- you don’t know the why b- it’s not just the safety of that rider but safety for others as well.
  4. TurboBlew

    TurboBlew Registers Abusers

    MELK-MAN likes this.
  5. sbk1198

    sbk1198 Well-Known Member

    I know a lot of people were pissed during the long delay, including the team I was helping out, but I understand WERA's decisions. Especially since they get more info from all the corner worker stations as well, whereas our crew only saw the front straight being in pit lane. But on the topic of safety...I still don't understand how it's safe to send people out on cold tires after a long delay. I never understood the logic of that rule, so hoping someone can explain that to me. Let's assume there isn't any rain, and simply a red flag for another reason and the race is on hold for an extended period of time (like well over half an hour for example). Then everyone restarts on cold slicks. How is that safe?? I understand not allowing teams to refuel or change tires because that could result in an advantage for some depending on when they had their pit stops, but being able to put tire warmers on (PLUGGED IN!) would be a benefit for everyone the same way and it would be much safer.
  6. drop

    drop Well-Known Member

    Hey Simon Egan wanna come in here and explain your side? You know since you should be recovered from dehydration and all.
  7. drop

    drop Well-Known Member

    At some point in here, not this thread, this was ask and I do believe mongo said, riders should be able to ride around any circumstances regarding tires. I know he is going to want me to cite that, but let's be real, it would take a week to find that statement. Don't even know what thread it was in. It's been probably a couple of years and that statement has stuck with me.
  8. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I want to clarify the second red flag as I have more information - he did not go onto the track. He did go next to the track while still waving his arms (per the corner worker and riders who didn't know if there was something huge going on past that point or what) then went back by the bike and "collapsed".
  9. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    It was an issue with one half soaked and the other dry, then it swapped before it became consistent. Just as I would have called for a red in that situation and we have done so many times in the past we couldn't restart that way.

    I ask for advice when I need it and have done so repeatedly over the years - having some sort of meeting with team reps wouldn't have changed anything. Having riders and teams vote on things is rarely ever a good idea, yeah it gives people warm and fuzzies if they're on the winning side but causes hatred from the other side and way more bullshit than it is ever worth. We have the more much experience running races safely than anyone on any of the teams. I honestly don't care if you agree with my decision Saturday or not but know I made it based on a lot of experience and the underlying first thought is always rider safety. For some reason people keep forgetting I am a race fan and my entire job is putting bikes on track, I have absolutely no interest in teams sitting on pit lane or riders sitting in the paddock.
    sheepofblue, DaveB, MELK-MAN and 2 others like this.
  10. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    So wait, you're fine with shutting down even longer than waiting 45 minutes to clean up the riders and teams who made the wrong call? Because with the runoff being as it was we couldn't get the crash truck or ambulance off track, that means a red flag anytime anyone is hurt or anything is in dangerous spot.

  11. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I never said rain tires go off immediately, the newest batches seem to actually work pretty well on a dry track for quite a while.

    Doesn't change that having a tire for one extreme or another doesn't work when the track is drastically different in one half from the other.
    drop likes this.
  12. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Yeah and when your bad decision results in you dying I don't sleep for a while, not to mention spending time in depositions when your family decides to sue us.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
    SundaySocial and Blipstein like this.
  13. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Yep, and I'm good with the call I made no matter how mad people are. Only rider who left in a flashy box crashed on the warmup of the 2 hour earlier that morning. Given the weather I'll take that as a huge success.
    Fuzzy317, t11ravis and MELK-MAN like this.
  14. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    One rider screwing up - even as badly as in this case - isn't something I really fault the entire team for. If it were the only way to get through to the rider then we'd have to penalize the team - and may still do so - but at the time I was still getting more information and we will be penalizing the rider.
    t11ravis, MELK-MAN and swiest152 like this.
  15. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Cold tires are not inherently unsafe.

    I find it absolutely hilarious that people think we should have put them out on a track that was half dry and half wet and still insist at the same time they don't have the throttle control to warm up their tires.

    Requiring every single team to have a generator is a great way to kill the series growing like it has. It's hard enough to get people to do it without large tanks and quick fills and quick change everything that they see as being a necessity. Cords across pit lane are a hazard. The entire theory about how we could honk a horn and give everyone a certain time period to take them off and clear pit lane is great but I can't even get 1/3 of the teams to get their helmets and gloves on and fire the bike up to make the warm up lap without all of that.

    Is it something that could happen? Yep. We'll see how the series plays out as we go forward. But years of safe cold tire starts prove it is not a safety issue and isn't a necessity.
  16. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    If the tire alone is the only circumstance, yeah I could see saying that. I will say I'm still a little pissed at the rider coming all the way from T4 to pit in with a flat rear but he didn't crash while doing it. Just slow enough to be a hazard for the other riders.

    Now if you're factoring in tires and weather and the track and so on, sometimes it's easy to deal with it for the rider, other times not so much.
  17. drop

    drop Well-Known Member

    That's an ass load of track to come thru with a flat. Insane.
  18. 88/532

    88/532 Simply Antagonistical

    The red flag call was a no brainer, it had to be done. However, the bike had quit prior to the rider doing the fake injury flop. Once the bike quit, the whole team is penalized as their race is done. The folks who still had running machines are the ones really getting penalized by this incident/stunt…imo btw.
    meowculpa and drop like this.
  19. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    In a sprint I agree, in endurance races its the number of laps complete in green flag racing.

    I will obviously be considering levying a penalty for any team causing a race to end under red for the future but I still remember the bad old days of having to assign blame for red flags on riders. It is much better with the current method for sprints. Used to be that the rider who caused it was dq'd and anyone else left in the results - so you could win a race after crashing if your crash didn't cause the red.
  20. pjzocc

    pjzocc Well-Known Member

    Why would it have to be a requirement? It would be an allowance. Besides anyone who’s running slicks already runs warmers/generators.
    yuengling910, javyday and sbk1198 like this.

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