How do you like the RS compared to the TZ? Have you had a chance to run it yet against the competition? I know I'm sold, but I think your TZ might have been a good bit faster than my stocker just from reading. Jack
Jack, Great question. Well let me start by saying that I loved the TZ. What it was missing in a little drive and top end it made up for on the brakes and in the corners. The Yamaha handled very well. It was very easy to set up and didnt need any major work. The range was good and all I needed to do is play with the oil heights to get it where you want. The engine was a breeze to tune. Almost a joke actually. If it was wrong you could really feel it. I attribute alot of this to the fact that it was Kevins bike and was like new when I got it. I drastically changed the set up that Kevin had however. I also had the engine Dyno'd at Kevins shop prior to him delivering it. So when I got it I had my 3 main jets that made the power and corrected for air density. My engine was bone stock with a MCE head. Honda. I have had it out 5 times and have 500 miles on it. I am having some problems with jetting. This is due to the fact that it runs good all the time. If it is fat it seems to pull hard on the bottom and just run a little flat on top. But still strong. The Yamaha ran much leaner. It would bobble and stumble if it was rich. I am running the jetting leaner every time on the honda and I am down to a 168 on an average day. No detonation at all. I had to run the Yamaha to the point that you would just see some detonation around the outer edge of the piston. I know I can get more aggressive with the jetting. I am running leaded with a stock 96 head. Would like to bump the timing a bit but have no info on how far is resonable to compensate for the leaded higher octane fuel. Running C-12. My issue is with the suspension. I am really struggling. I have changed the set up in every configuration. I can get it to fall into corners like I cannot believe just to have it run wide comming out. Then I lower the back a bit and it drives out like a champ but not good going in. I have a good set up now that is good going in and drives nice out but I am not getting the confidance at apex mid corner. I want to just rail but just feels wrong... It is really driving me crazy. I am no expert by any means, however, when I sold my Yamaha to a very fast 250 guy he liked the set up so much I dont think he changed the set up one click. Little preload for weight change but proved on the track that it was a really good set up. SO I know what I want just cannot find it. I wish the Honda Manual is good. It is not. The Yamaha manual was much better at helping me with both engine and suspension. I am only .5 to 1 second faster on the Honda and I feel that is WAY to low. I was hoping for 2 seconds. It of course cannot be my fault so I did what everyone does. Bought an Airbox, Carbon Gas tank... (hell that is .5 seconds alone right?) and some other goodies. I am not turned off by the Honda at all as I like a challenge. I also see all these other guys FLYING on these Hondas. I know it can happen. I enjoy finding the set up I just thought it would be easier. My main goal is to not get hurt trying. I know I have mental problems also... LOL.. Personally I think all these guys are scared as hell that I will find the set up.. Yea thats right.. They are holding out on me Thanks for asking Bill Cole WERA/CCS/USGPRU#27
I had the suspension done on my 96RS for last season, there was quite a lot of work involved from what I was told. The shim stacks/dampers are quite basic as standard, the modified parts cover a wider range of damping. This is what I was told, and the bike definately felt better and I was faster at every track I visited. I think you may have a point if everyone says they are using stock suspension, and you still can't get near them, but perhaps more than 500 miles is needed to prove this. (Though I think from previous discussion that you are a FAIR bit quicker than me!!) One thing you mentioned was good drive/poor top end. Ian E did a lot of work with BPS ignitions last year, and they now make a 'Curve Bender'. You set the advance to max( for good drive), and the bender retards it as the revs go up, so you should be able to rev out. I have one fitted, will be trying it in 2 weeks, I'll let you know how it goes.
Your handling woes interest me. I've seen similar. I haven't messed with ride height in the rear yet, but I'm thinking the thing has too much rearward weight bias. My Yamaha's handling was flawless, just didn't have the motor. The RS seems to push the front, gets really light under power and slides wide on corner exits. The Yamaha didn't do that, dead neutral under power. I did lighten the dampening up front a little thinking it was just chopping over little bumps, but it seems more a weight bias problem. As I've really only put it on the edge once so far, I'll be messing with it continually, also, until it starts to feel better. BUT, I'm considerable faster on the RS, by several seconds, at TWS. It's the motor that makes the difference as my Yamaha was down bad on the competition. I'm running farther up now just due to motor. Still need more to run at the very front, but hell, I ain't rich and I have lower expectations, LOL. But, the handling is something I can work with and improve without dumping a bunch of money into it. Best of luck. Jack
Jack I think you are dead on. My Yamaha was the same. I found that it liked some compresion dampning and less rebound to track the bumps and ripples. You are having the same issues with the RS that I am. I did jack the ride height and found it not wanting to run out of the corners and wanting to run wide. My next step is to put more spring in to keep the geometry the way I want it. If you get any answers let me know. Bummer that your TZ was not on pace. While mine was not setting any track records it could run with the pack if I was up to it. I am also realizing how much I was over riding it to stay in the game. I am getting old and thought this was going to be a nice way to run well with less effort. Bill Cole WERA/CCS/USGRPU#27
Bill, You are not getting old but are old!!! You are too fussy about the suspension. Just ride the damn thing. When in doubt, just give it more gas. That's what I do, LOL. I never fool with those adjustments on the fork or shock. Time wasters. Not even sure what they do. See you at Daytona old man!!! Brian [This message has been edited by FZR 473 (edited 02-18-2002).]
Hey, I was like that with the Yamaha, but it didn't need fiddling with. When you get off a bike that handles that well and get on one that does bad stuff, you just gotta fiddle! Not sure what I'm doing, but by God I'm trying! I suspect Bill's a bit of a perfectionist. Me, not hardly, but I like to emulate the fast guys. I try. Jack
Yes I am feeling old. Man it hurts when I hit the ground these days.. Guess I should start thinking about greener pastures but I am having a blast. Yes I am a perfectionist.. It is a tough thing to live with... Ask my wife! See you at daytona.... If the painter gets done in time!! Bill Cole WERA/CCS/USGPRU#27
Well, I'll turn fifty this year. Came back to racing four years ago. I'll tell ya, yeah, it hurts worse when you fall, but when I'm on the bike racing, even if I'm slower now days, I feel like I'm 18! I think that may be the major reason why I do it now. I ain't gonna win, I know that, too old, too broke, never was blessed with real talent. But, it's more fun now that it ever was for some reason. I don't know when I'll quit. I may give up GP and stick to YSR/mini racing in the future, but I don't know if I can just give it up for now. I've got a few good years left even at 49 1/2 and racing just makes me happy. You gotta do what makes you happy, eh Bill? [This message has been edited by Jack (edited 02-18-2002).]
Ya.. I am almost 40 and have no kids so why not play.. You cannot go wrong with the YSR thing! I raced for Team Calamari for 6 years before racing the 125 and it was a blast. Go for it!! Bill
I'm running a motarded KX80 that's a lot of fun, now. I've been getting some help with it, too. But, I've been looking at those little NSRs. The YSRs are all getting old and they are a little pricy. I can get a fresh NSR50 for $2500, cheap thrills. Then the thought occured, ya know, I've got this KX chassis all modded and dialed in and I enjoy the motard thing. If I wanna go to super 60s, maybe I could shovel a KX 60 into the 80s frame. Haven't looked at measurements or such for such a project, but it's a thought and I could probably buy a motor new or look around for a used one fairly new. There are several options in the future for the mini thing, but for now I'll enjoy riding the KX. Thing is, our local mini club, Texas Mini GP, is talking doing away with the Unlimited class. I'd have to get a 60 or NSR if that happens, but either is a blast to ride and I really enjoy the crowd around the TMGP stuff, nice people. Another thing that appeals to me about it in my old age, there's no pretense to being the big time, LOL. Just great fun on the cheap! Jack
Yep, but I have yet to get up there. Wanna do Denton soon as I can. The first two races are scheduled, Katy (very near my home) and Hitchcock (about as near my home). Denton is a long drive. Dennie and Jeff don't put up a schedule 'til the kart clubs set theirs. They say they save money on track rent that way. Hell, even their web site is supported by those annoying pop up ads. They do everything on the cheap to keep costs down for the racers. I just LOVE that attitude, being a cheap bastard myself! Jack
being a cheap bastard myself! LOL... Well then mini is where its at. Also isnt every drive in Texas long?? Bill
Yeah, but long drives are relative. Katy is just under two hours from here, Hitchcock just over, and Denton is 8+ hours, danged near to Oklahoma! But, then I'll be driving to Oklahoma this year, too.
